Part II

HACA: How did you first get started with your interest in swords?

EO: My mother’s brother was a popular author in the 1920s and was fairly wealthy, so I grew up surrounded with his sword collection, it was inevitable that I would have an interest. My father was a civil servant and a fan of history and a great teacher of history, he gave me a taste for it. So it was these two things combined, a passion for history and a passion for swords.

HACA: I think never having had our own "middle Ages" or "Renaissance period", we in America tend to wrongly imagine that this is a common thing to occur to Europeans. But, I imagine living with an 800-year-old castle in your hometown you’d get used to it and don’t think of it the same way we would.

EO: Yes, yes. I was a commercial artist you see, so the craftsmanship also appealed to me as well as the history.

HACA: So, I understand you just started picking them up here and there and not finding enough information starting researching yourself?

EO: Collecting was easier then of course, swords were cheap! I acquired things easily, I got my first sword in 1931 and later during World War II when I got called up, Sotheby’s still held sales, they sold weapons for pennies, there were thousands of swords then. In the 1950’s this continued and they were at reasonable prices. I remember I spent all my money on them, I would save up for them.

HACA: Much the same as we do now for replicas! What a difference.

Is anyone in your family a student of swords?

EO: I have three children and nine grandchildren and they haven’t the slightest interest in swords. They all think I’m quite mad (laughing).

HACA: You’ve been said to have once suggested that you felt that when it came to collecting antique swords that you, or anyone, did not really own them, that you were all just "caretakers", can you elaborate?

EO: Yes. These things have been around for so long and gone through so many people’s hands. You come to realize that when you are gone they will still be here and someone else will own them, but only for awhile.

HACA: So, in that sense we are just custodians.

EO: Yes, they only come into your possession for a short time and you care for them until they go on to someone else, you see. You may own them for now, but they are a part of history.

HACA: Interesting…

EO: I saw a sword just the other day that I had (originally) acquired for my 21st birthday, and which I had written about quite extensively in my "Archaeology of Weapons", and some poor chap had removed the original grip and replaced it with this god awful one that was entirely inappropriate and just wrong.

HACA: Oh, no…and he was just trying to get a better price for it? Sad.

EO: My collection now is small only about 40 blades, I’ve reached the point where I am fairly satisfied and don’t trade or collect anymore. I’ve had some fine pieces over the years come into my possession and I traded them for others or sold them to get another I fancied. After awhile you decide to trade for something else. But now days its gotten harder and harder.

HACA: Yes, I understand that the larger museums buy them up then they don’t have the money or space to display them and just lock them away in a closet or something where they are never head of again.

EO: Yes, it’s sad to think of them ending up locked away in a private collection or buried in a museum basement.

HACA: One of the things HACA is doing in America to promote their study is to present to the public better examples of the finer replicas, and thereby educate on just how fine they were, how light and well-balanced. We do exhibitions and displays to show them off and hope to one day publicly present a few actual antique blades for viewing and handling, much in the way that Japanese sword preservation societies do with their weapons.

EO: Wonderful. It certainly needs to be done. A great friend of mine, a chap named David Edge, of the Wallace Collection, runs a regular sort of series of talks where stuff is handed around. He goes about and does this.

HACA: We need to get more real swords into the hands of the public so they can see and appreciate them.

EO: Certainly, you have to handle them before you can understand them.

HACA: The real things are so much finer that the replicas. Does anyone come to mind as having good, accurate replica blades today?

EO: Raven Armoury swords are quite good of course, Simon Fernham, is a talented young artist and craftsman.

HACA: To return briefly to the subject of sword types again, you point out the differences between blades in the renaissance that were swords and that were rapiers, this seems to be a matter that slips past a lot of people?

EO: Well, I don’t see why…

HACA: (interrupting) Spoken like a man who’s handled hundreds of real swords…!

EO: (laughing) Yes, well we are dealing with both swords, or reitschwert as I call most of them, and true rapiers. There is a simple difference, there are two simple blades, one is broad with reasonable breadth and one narrow, one can cut an arm off …the other is a rapier. It’s for thrusting with. There’s simply no doubt that the true rapier has very little if any edge.

HACA: No argument here, I can assure you. But it’s those that are in-between, that are transitional, that can be confusing.

EO: Somewhat, yes. They were always experimenting you see. But they knew what they were doing.

HACA: About various long-swords, isn’t it readily apparent that the style of use of an early long-sword is significantly different in handling and application than a later, narrower one with a sharper point for fighting heavy armor?

EO: Absolutely different, they were not employed in the same manner, how could they? One is broad for slashing and the other not.

HACA: They have different points of balance and centers of impact as well as cutting and thrusting capacity, too.

EO: Very much so. One need only lift them to see this. They were intended for different purposes.

HACA: Well, I know you time is short so I will end things for now here, thank you again