Research and Discussion Forums

John_Clements · Joined: 18 Sep 2002 Posts: 1180 Location: Atlanta area

The late 15th century Fechtbuch compilation, “Der Alten Fechter”, offered twelve essential rules for the beginning fighter which summarized much of the Medieval German approach to fencing. Hey appear directed to the longsword but apply to other weapons. Let’s list them then examine and discuss them one by one:
1. The leg in front is bent, the other one going towards the back is stretched.
2. Fight high with straightened body, deliver mighty blows out of the length.
3. Strike and move at the same timeand place your feet against each other.
4. He who moves after the blows has no right to be proud of his art.
5. Remember the flat of the blade, do not fence left if you are right.
6. Search for Schwech [“weak”] und Sterck [“strong”], remember this word In des.
7. Test Weych [“soft”] or Hert [“hard”], Nachreisen should be your endeavour.
8. Strike Vor (“before”) and Nach (“after”), do not close in too early.
9. If you fight near the body, do not avoid the Zeckrur (“provocations”).
10. In the Binding step close, otherwise you will be injured.
11. The forehand is called true edge, seldom allow a Versatzung (displacement) on the short edge.
12. If you are frightened easily, do not learn fencing.

The next post we'll start with Rule #1.
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Guest · Posted: Mon Sep 23, 2002 1:45 pm Post subject: Re: The 12 Rules

1. The leg in front is bent, the other one going towards the back is stretched.

TODD'S INPUT: This is the first and most important. You must have a good foundation for fencing. A good foundation means good balance with your weight evenly distrubted. A good stance also shows the fighter knows what they are doing and martial value. A good stance is also important for movement and footwork. If you attempt to evade or press in and your stance is no good you have diffuctly moving with speed and timing.

I've seen so-called martial artists who have no martial value because thier stance is terrible.

Guest · Posted: Mon Sep 23, 2002 2:04 pm Post subject: Rule 1

I agree with you fully. However, I do find myself in this position when actually engaged rather than when waiting out of distance in a guard.

Just thought I would include a picture from the Goliath manual of the stance we are talking about.

John_Clements · Joined: 18 Sep 2002 Posts: 1180 Location: Atlanta area

Yes. This is essentially correct. Interesting though how simple yet vague the rule is, mentioning nothing about foot position, balance, etc.

JC
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Tony_Indurante · Joined: 18 Sep 2002 Posts: 100 Location: Las Vegas, NV

This position of your legs also puts you in a "cocked" position, ready to spring forward with speed and power. If you bend the back leg you lose this springiness. I would guess that as long as you are balanced you can also move side to side or backwards equally well, just not with the same power.
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Fabrice Cognot · Posted: Mon Sep 23, 2002 4:19 pm Post subject: Re: The 12 Rules

these rules are from Paurnfeindt's book, aren't they?

Fab
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John_Clements · Joined: 18 Sep 2002 Posts: 1180 Location: Atlanta area

No, our Egenolph thing, Lebkommer/Leckuechner.

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Guest · Posted: Wed Sep 25, 2002 7:24 pm Post subject: Re: The 12 Rules

I'm just a beginner but it seems to me that the feet should be placed in an offset position as opposed to inline, which is hard to tell from the illustrations. On the other hand you dont want to wide a stance which means it takes more effort and time to pass forward or back.

David Parker
ARMA-SFL

TimSheetz · Joined: 20 Sep 2002 Posts: 420 Location: Madrid, Spain

TIM's REPLY To JOHN CLEMMENTS:

I agree. What you sacrifice with leaning in is the ablity to move backwards quickly. I think that with techniques like UberLauffen (someone please check for my proper use of this term! ), where you step just beyond their range and cut their limbs that are in your range, standing straight really helps you keep at the proper distance and speeds.

Thanks,
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Guest · Posted: Wed Sep 25, 2002 8:25 pm Post subject: Re: Rule #2

TODD'S REPLY TO TIM:

You can move in or out striking the exposed arms or legs or drive thier weapon down or away and striking by outreaching them. I'm looking forward to demonstrating this with you.

Todd

TimSheetz · Joined: 20 Sep 2002 Posts: 420 Location: Madrid, Spain

TIM's REPLY TO TODD:

Really? <img src="/forum/images/icons/laugh.gif" alt="" />
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Tony_Indurante · Joined: 18 Sep 2002 Posts: 100 Location: Las Vegas, NV

TONY'S input: I haven't read much on lateral movement at all. Most of the foot work I've been looking at lately is in diGrassi and these seem to be predominantly forward in nature, either straight or traversing. This may be indicative of the particular weapon(s) being used in diGrassi's manual, though. I, too, would be interested in examples of purely lateral movement and when they are most applicable, especially in relation to long sword.
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Casper Bradak · Joined: 20 Sep 2002 Posts: 641 Location: Utah, U.S.

#3 When he says to place your feet against each other, what does he mean? I haven't figured this one out.
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John_Clements · Joined: 18 Sep 2002 Posts: 1180 Location: Atlanta area

3. Strike and move at the same time and place your feet against each other.

I think the meaning here is clear on the first part, to coordinate your body movement (foot, hip, arm, weapon) for maximum power in your blow. You can't "strike then move" or vice versa, after all. The second part on feet against one another could mean literally heel to heel as is known in one kind of quick or false step, or it could be poor wording/translation that means to simply have your feet coordinated so that you pass.
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joelthompson1 · Joined: 23 Sep 2002 Posts: 36 Location: SE Coastal Virginia

JOEL'S REPLY TO TODD: OK so when you move laterally, are your feet still remaining one forward and one back or are they now side by side? And what guard are you in to make your strike? It sounds like you're talking about a single sidestep and then a pivot when the opponent moves in quickly. I'm more interested in moving laterally prior to engagement. As opposed to circling each other, moving sideways to keep your opponent from circling. Maybe you don't want him to have his back to the sun or maybe keep him from moving to more even ground, that sort of thing.