Research and Discussion Forums

[Rob Casey]

Hello, I am new to Western Martial arts and to the ARMA site. It is a great site with A LOT of information. Infact there is so much information it is a bit overwhelming <img src="/forum/images/icons/smile.gif" alt="" />

I will be joining the ARMA organization within a month or two. I am very interested in learning to use a true two-hander, if i recall from your article on there weight (which was excellent) the correct term is either Dopplehänder or Bidenhänder correct? I would like ask for some tips on manules, article and generally where to start with endevor.

Any information you could give would be most appreciated and helpful. Thank you and great site. <img src="/forum/images/icons/smile.gif" alt="" />

[Mike Chidester]

I'd suggest you start by learning as much as you can with the longsword/greatsword, and make sure you have a firm grasp on those principles before even attempting the zweihander.
_________________
Michael Chidester
General Free Scholar
ARMA Provo

"I have met a hundred men who would call themselves Masters, and taking all of their skill together they have not the makings of three good Scholars, let alone one Master."

[Rob Casey]

I thank you for your reply good sir. I will take your advice and learn as much as I can about the Longsword. Is there a perticular reason why I should do this? Will learning a zweihander first be impracticle or dangerouse with out learning the longsword properly first?

Once again thank you and I appreciate the reply. <img src="/forum/images/icons/smile.gif" alt="" />

[Jeremy Martin]

I'm a lot like you, I want to jump in with the two-hander right off.

But I think the basics you learn with the 'basic' longsword translate well, if not completely, on to many different sword types. While many of the two-hander skills you will learn are more unique to the two-hander. From the foundation of the longsword you can more easily branch out into other weapons, in short.

Or maybe the two-hander is just too big and heavy to start with and you need to build-up the correct 'swordsman' muscles in order to use it to it's full potential.

Maybe both.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but that's what I've kinda gathered from reading various things here. <img src="/forum/images/icons/smile.gif" alt="" />
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"I've had brain surgery, whats your excuse?"

[Allen Johnson]

I feel that longsword is such a solid foundation for almost all weapons. From there you can easily go to the more specialized weapons like the greatswords, messer, rapier, ect. Even with the work I am doing on 18th cent. baskethilt has alot more potency and alot more martial sense if done with a more medieval mindset than a later saber or smallsword mindset that many seem to use. It's like learning to use a rifle before you get to use a big machine gun. Get you core skills down and other weapons will come easier and you will be better at them.
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"Why is there a picture of a man with a sword in his head on your desk?" -friends inquiry

[Matthew_Anderson]

Of course I agree that the longsword is a good foundational weapon to start with. It is so versatile and can be used so many different ways that it will certainly build good skills that will translate to other weapons. IRT the big two-handers, we really don't have a lot of specific material to work from. However, certainly they can be used much like a longsword, just adapting to the extra weight and length. Some manuscripts which clearly illustrate the typical Lichtenauer style, such as "Goliath" show swords which appear to be very large, and could certanly fall within the range of what we would call true two-handers, so I think there is some overlap in form and use. My advice, learn the basics of using a two-handed weapon with longsword, and you will be able to translate those skills into larger (and smaller) weapons easily enough.
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Matt Anderson
SFS
ARMA Virginia Beach

[Mike Chidester]

Yes, exactly. The longsword is an excellent foundational weapon--it is perhaps for this reason that there is more historical source material for this weapon than any other. In any case, the principles you will learn in an intense study of the longsword will port over almost directly to most other weapons. This is especially true of the zweihander, which is a larger and more specialized version of the greatsword (which is essentially the same as the longsword). Also, you'll find the longsword much easier to handle when you're starting out. Really, the true two-hander was designed for the largest and strongest soldiers in the army--it's not a weapon for beginners.
_________________
Michael Chidester
General Free Scholar
ARMA Provo

"I have met a hundred men who would call themselves Masters, and taking all of their skill together they have not the makings of three good Scholars, let alone one Master."

[Rob Casey]

Thank you guys once again. You all make perfect sense, thank you for answering my questions <img src="/forum/images/icons/smile.gif" alt="" />

[SzabolcsWaldmann]

..and besides, the Twohander is a specialized, or, a special weapon. Whatever you choose to do, is it riding, is it sailing, or driving cars, painting, sculpting, archery, you never start with something that is highly specialized and made for a special role. A Twohander is not really a sparring weapon anyway (I know there were fights with it, but it wasn't average)

byez,

Szab

PS: without learning to use your own weight, weightpoint, without clearly learning tha mastercuts for example with a sword that does not brake your arm if you do your flourish wrong, you would not have much fun with a Bidenhander. And that's the main point.
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Order of the Sword Hungary

[Rod-Thornton]

Rob:

Like you, I too envisioned beginning with another weapon, but chose to accept the longsword as the first sword of study(not too long ago). As others have indicated, it will teach many foundational principles that will carry over to more specialized weaponry. But, something that was not mentioned (I think) was that in studying the longsword, which you must use for defense and offense, you may learn first that you cannot be lazy with it. I.e., it will teach you that if you are lazy in your footwork...whammo!...if you are lazy in your timing of range...whack!....if you are lazy in following up on combinations of attacks...whammo again! Overall, longsword will teach you good habits of control, range, timing, footwork usage, agressiveness in swordplay, and also, stamina. All these of course, carry over to other weapons systems.

Good luck with your foray into WMA!
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Rod W. Thornton, Scholar Adept (Longsword)
ARMA-Virginia Beach Study Group

[Grant Hall]

Hullo,
Like Rob I too would love to speacialize in the Dopplehänder as I am 6'6" (297lbs.) and my brothers are 6'4" (200lbs) and 6'8" (262lbs) respectively, (Our freinds are also all around the 5'10" to 6'5" range) I think it would be a good and powerful choice for most of us.

However, I too realize the importance of starting off with the humble (albeit deadly) longsword.

My only question is, that, being located in Australia, I have noway of knowing how to aquire a TRUE (although blunt) longsword for use in training (I have seen the page on contructing a padded combat sword.) can anyone help me in my search of a TRUE longsword.

Particular areas of distress for me are:

a) How much should it weigh?

b) What lenght and width should the various component peices be?

c) Where should the balance point in the sword be located?

d) How do I know it is trully a real combat ready sword and not just a well made imitation or replica that will break the moment it comes into contact with anything even resembling a real blow?

(all above questions are in relation to a True Steel longsword)

Thankyou for your time.

PS: When purchasing my very first sword, how much can I expect to pay?
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<<<<<<<<<<]==0
Grant Hall - Scholar
--ARMA Australia--
0==[>>>>>>>>>>

“The Nation that makes a great distinction
between its scholars and its warriors
will have its thinking done by cowards
and its fighting done by fools"
– Thucydides 5th c. BC

[M Wallgren]

Check out this ... www.albion-swords.com go to the Maestroline...

at www.myarmoury.com people are very happy to answer questions on where balancepoints and stuff should be. Alot of swordmakers frequent that forum..

Martin
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Martin Wallgren,
ARMA Östersund, Sweden, Studygroup Leader.

[Grant Hall]

Thank you very much.

Again ARMA proves to be an assest in all things Sword, I trully can not wait to join and begin the long hard and rewarding road to true swordsmanship.

Cheers.
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<<<<<<<<<<]==0
Grant Hall - Scholar
--ARMA Australia--
0==[>>>>>>>>>>

“The Nation that makes a great distinction
between its scholars and its warriors
will have its thinking done by cowards
and its fighting done by fools"
– Thucydides 5th c. BC

[M Wallgren]

Youre wellcome...

Martin
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Martin Wallgren,
ARMA Östersund, Sweden, Studygroup Leader.

[Brian Hunt]

Hi Grant,

if you are on a budget, you might also do a google search for the "paul chen practical hand and a half." I paid $90 US for mine, and it has been a very sturdy blunt. Do you already have a wooden waster? If not, you might want to look at one from new sterling arms.

hope this helps.

Brian Hunt
GFS
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Tuus matar hamsterius est, et tuus pater buca sabucorum fundor!

www.paulushectormair.com
http://www.emerytelcom.net/users/blhunt/sales.htm