Research and Discussion Forums

[Daniel Brown]

Try to find books on teaching the arts, not really looking for a history lesson, any help would be great. Also I saw the books listed on the site, Codex looks promising, but I was wondering if any knows any different ones?

[John Farthing]

For Knife Fighting, check out Jason Vail's book here:

http://www.thearma.org/member-books/med-renn-dagger-combat.htm

While it does contain some 'History lessons', it is also a very straightforward approach to Knife/Dagger fighting. The techniques described are as applicable today as they were in the days of their inception.
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-John Farthing, Scholar Adept
ARMA Deputy Director

[Stewart Sackett]

There are quite a few primary sources that include Ringen & dagger work as well as several contemporary books interpreting them.

All of these tend to focus on describing the techniques rather than describing any structured method of training them although that subject is often touched upon. So you're covered if you're looking for technical details but if by "teaching the arts" you mean how to effectively drill the material yourself, or pass it on to others, then that's a little harder.

There are some good online sources for ideas about structuring practice sessions. The ARMA website has good HEMA specific material about study/training methods. If you're simply looking for a conceptual framework for organizing your training then I'd look into the Straight Blast Gym. They're an MMA school so what they practice is a little different from what we do in ARMA but they take training efficiency & educational philosophy very seriously & are good at clearly articulating fundamental ideas.

Here: http://aliveness101.blogspot.com/

P.S. The codex is great! I highly reccomend it, although it does require some basic grappling knowledge in order to make sense of it all.
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All fighting comes from wrestling.

[Maxime Chouinard]

There is no book for the moment on bataireacht, except for the small excerpt in 1840 defensive exercice by Donald Walker. Glen Doyle is preparing a DVD about his family style that should be out soon. His website also gives a basc overview of the techniques : http://www.geocities.com/glendoyle/bata/

If you plan on practicing it, I would advise you first get some instruction, as it is a living tradition. I don't know where you live but there are official practice groups from both styles of Ramsey and Doyle families that are opening here and there, so you might be lucky. As for Glima, I think your only option for the moment is going to Iceland.

[Jay Vail]

[Maxime Chouinard]

Yes, but you have to realise that the books do not cover everything ; we have one or two books dealing with it very generally, it's a terribly small fraction of what must have been then, if you consider that each family had it's own style and that pretty much every grown men practiced it, most of them illiterate and having no intetion of showing their style to other clans. Here is the most complete by Donald Walker : http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acropolis/4933/boxingtext.html

But there are mentions of people using the bata with both hands much like a quarterstaff in the writings of William Carleton (in the 1840's if I remember). He documents a variety of styles that are not shown anywhere and that we can only imagine (namely the two-stick fighting). John Hurley did a very good job at analysing them.

This style was supoosedly created in the 18th century and kept in the Doyle family, Glen Doyle did some changes namely in posture because of his kung Fu background (he is the inheritor of the style, so he has the last word on things), but he does teach the traditional ones too. Here are some videos about it: http://www.youtube.com/user/byyon

Like I wrote in my article, this is a problem in examining living traditions that don't have a written bagage. You cannot be sure of anything and must always study it with an open as much as a critical mind.

[Daniel Brown]

Thanks guys this really helps, I like the Walker stuff, I going to get the Codex book also. I train MMA fighters to self-defense from women, and the asian arts are great, but alot of my mma guys want to learn their heritage. Thank you all for the help.


Floreat majestas

[Eddie Smith]

the guys at Alliance Martial arts had some stuff up on glima at one point I'll see if I can link it.

[nathan featherstone]

as far as i recall of glens style was that it was relatively modern in the overall scheme of bata fighting. however the ramsey style i have seen pictures from the viking age with bata fighters using the exact same stance with a shield so leads me to believe from trying it that it was done. its effective and the general stance allows perfectly for a shield. as my chief area of interest is mainly Irish and pre med fighting it varies a bit but borrows heavily on the manuals.
i have done a good bit of glima myself.
these are mainly my areas of interest although i tend to focus on med wrestling as glima is fun as a game or as it was used in a shield wall application but in a fight its not that much use.
as max says though its a living art so try get out and learn it if you can.