Research and Discussion Forums

David Craig · Joined: 12 May 2004 Posts: 81 Location: New Jersey, U.S.

I'm a beginner studying longsword techniques and I was wondering if Tail guard was used/advocated by the German masters? So far I've read only Ringeck & Meyer, and both instruct fighters to fence from the four primary guards. Note that I'm not questioning the utility of the tail guard, (I don't have the experience to make that sort of judgement anyway), I'm just wondering if the Germans even used it. If not, where does it come from: Italian, English?

David Craig

Joachim Nilsson · Joined: 02 Oct 2002 Posts: 342 Location: Gimo, Sweden

Hi David.

Yes, the Germans did use it. But Ringeck, for instance, considered it to be a secondary guard, not a primary one.

Regards,
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philippewillaume · Joined: 21 Apr 2004 Posts: 336 Location: UK, windsor

you will find it in fiore. (and my be vadi, I need to check)
I think as well there is a similar ward in I33.

the lichtanauer tradition is based on keepin the point toward your oppoenent (or bring it there very quickely so ....)hence the tail guard is a bit out.

that being said in C toblers books about uncle sigmund, the nebenhut is described as a tail guard.

that is the only guard that is mentioned in the ringeck and this is not described. it is mentioned as well in the ad ons. the part that are clearly not from lichtanauer but that are good to fence from.

it means near guard so...which is described in Meyer sadly it looks like ringeck schankhut, so bets are on

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Casper Bradak · Joined: 20 Sep 2002 Posts: 641 Location: Utah, U.S.

It's plainly illustrated by Master Talhoffer as a guard as well.
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Randall Pleasant · Posted: Tue May 18, 2004 12:44 pm Post subject: Re: Tail Guard Question

The tail guard is also shown in second half of the Codex Wallerstein (Plate 151) on page 310.
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Allen Johnson · Joined: 20 Feb 2004 Posts: 635 Location: Columbia, SC

For I.33, Plate 55 and 56 show their version of the tail guard.
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leam hall · Joined: 24 Jan 2004 Posts: 126 Location: Leesburg, GA

"It's plainly illustrated by Master Talhoffer as a guard as well."

Plate 25. However no name seems given for it. And you gotta wonder, if the scale is right, exactly how long that handle is...
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Casper Bradak · Joined: 20 Sep 2002 Posts: 641 Location: Utah, U.S.

The hilt looks pretty normal to me, but anyway, what's in a name? What else could it be?
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GaryGrzybek · Posted: Wed May 19, 2004 6:57 pm Post subject: Re: Tail Guard Question

Some of the swords in Talhoffer appear to be short in the blade not so much in the hilt. This could be the artist getting things off scale a bit but we know there were certainly swords of various lengths depending on personal preference.

If you look at plate 223 for the messer the combatant on the right holds a left side tail guard. It appears that he's preparing to set aside a cut form above.

Cool stuff...
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leam hall · Joined: 24 Jan 2004 Posts: 126 Location: Leesburg, GA

My comment was about the length of the handle; those things look to have a lot more area between the hands than I'm used to seeing! <img src="/forum/images/icons/tongue.gif" alt="" />
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Jake_Norwood · Joined: 19 Sep 2002 Posts: 920 Location: Clarksville, TN

Meyer advocates fighting from the four primary guards? Not really! But that's okay.

Ringeck's section on Tail guard is probably actually more techniques from left wechsel, which is an amazing position to fight from.

The Germans definitely used the type of right-handed-back-pointing guard that you're talking about, but there seems to be a tendency to prefer the more forward Schrankhut position.

Okay, that was scattered. Sorry.

Jake
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Karen Rose · Joined: 29 Feb 2004 Posts: 61

I'm not super versed in this, but I will pass along the little bit that I have learned. I am learning that Fiore used the tail guard (coda longa) effectively. It is very useful when dealing with more than one opponent as with a quick pivot you are in the very strong full iron door, or even the iron door.
I think arriving there was more as a result of a left squalambratto full on....then you are ready for a quick true or false edge right back up if need be, putting you right back in di donna or finestra.
That's how these inexperiened eyes are seeing it <img src="/forum/images/icons/smile.gif" alt="" />

Karen