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by Bob Charron
Thu Sep 09, 2004 2:58 pm
Forum: Research and Training Discussion
Topic: the thrust in Longsword combat
Replies: 35
Views: 29841

Re: the thrust in Longsword combat

If I came on too strong in making a request that false impressions not be given, or accepted, then I apologize for any perceived rudeness, but not for the point I made, which I still stand by. Aaron, I simply asked for academic backup for the posted statement and disagreed with it. It then was turne...
by Bob Charron
Thu Sep 09, 2004 6:31 am
Forum: Research and Training Discussion
Topic: the thrust in Longsword combat
Replies: 35
Views: 29841

Re: the thrust in Longsword combat

John, You have turned something personal that was academic. You consistently do that. I ask you please do not. Niether your straw man argument about other articles or calling me a "disengenous critic" is applicable or helpful. The exception I took was to the blanket statement concerning th...
by Bob Charron
Wed Sep 08, 2004 6:17 am
Forum: Research and Training Discussion
Topic: the thrust in Longsword combat
Replies: 35
Views: 29841

Re: the thrust in Longsword combat

Caspar, My problem is with citing Medieval masters as putting forward advice that they did not put forward. You can't use them as an authority for your own feelings without their having said what you say they said. It is good scholarship to include the original quote from the source to back your pos...
by Bob Charron
Tue Sep 07, 2004 11:51 am
Forum: Research and Training Discussion
Topic: the thrust in Longsword combat
Replies: 35
Views: 29841

Re: the thrust in Longsword combat

JC wrote: "It's one of the primary attacks, both Liecthenauer and Fiore list it as very important and instruct to keep your point aimed at the opponent at all times. Most swords of the era were aptly designed for strong thrusts. You must practice and train in thrust with the longsword." Wh...
by Bob Charron
Tue Nov 25, 2003 7:24 am
Forum: Unarmed Skills Discussion
Topic: Rasslin' with Fiore de' Liberi
Replies: 36
Views: 51003

Re: Fiore's Abrazare

Hey Shane, Well, the Bible is an interesting case study. Because the original was written in two languages (Old Testament Hebrew and New Testament Greek) and since then has become a multi-tiered translation through Latin and onward, it can be more consistently understood linguistically by experts wo...
by Bob Charron
Mon Nov 24, 2003 7:37 am
Forum: Unarmed Skills Discussion
Topic: Rasslin' with Fiore de' Liberi
Replies: 36
Views: 51003

Re: Fiore's Abrazare

Hey Tony, Yes, there are places all over the text where he describes one of the options for the ligadure (in fact in their definition in the prologue) as "binding the arm". This binding, accompanied by other statements such as "don't bother trying to get away from me" or "I ...
by Bob Charron
Wed Nov 19, 2003 7:41 am
Forum: Unarmed Skills Discussion
Topic: Rasslin' with Fiore de' Liberi
Replies: 36
Views: 51003

Re: Fiore's Abrazare

David, In my opinion Fiore's art was a subtle, refined art intended for educated men. There is an entire continuum of violence which must be used with discretion (avisamento) by the scholar. Moral, legal, political, and religious considerations were necessary in the application of the art. Therefore...
by Bob Charron
Mon Nov 17, 2003 7:07 am
Forum: Unarmed Skills Discussion
Topic: Rasslin' with Fiore de' Liberi
Replies: 36
Views: 51003

Re: Fiore's Abrazare

Jay, I was quoting (and it appears not quite correctly [should have used "wimpy" instead of "pansy"]) David Welch from his original post: "While trying to figure out some of the moves in Fiore unarmed I was having some trouble getting the results I wanted. Some of it worked ...
by Bob Charron
Wed Nov 12, 2003 12:42 pm
Forum: Unarmed Skills Discussion
Topic: Rasslin' with Fiore de' Liberi
Replies: 36
Views: 51003

Fiore's Abrazare

If one looks carefully at the illustration in the Pissani-Dossi manuscript, then cross-references it with the illustration in the Getty Ludwig manuscript, then reads both captions, it is plain that Fiore intends to lift the person from the ground by force, so that he lands upon his head and then his...
by Bob Charron
Fri Jun 20, 2003 12:31 pm
Forum: Research and Training Discussion
Topic: Charron test cutting
Replies: 231
Views: 188152

Re: speed and force - study & interpretation

Guys, This thread has gone on for 23 pages now, and has wandered in all sorts of directions not related to the thread topic. It appears its about to wander again :-) It has been good to talk with some of you, but I have to go back to limiting this kind of forum participation as the book project is g...
by Bob Charron
Fri Jun 20, 2003 6:34 am
Forum: Research and Training Discussion
Topic: Charron test cutting
Replies: 231
Views: 188152

Re: speed and force - study & interpretation

Stewart, The average class begins with warm-ups done on your own (30 pushups, 30 situps, 30 hindu-squats). When these are done you may join the group. We then do basic footwork drills to reinforce the basic movement (four steps, three turns). We then take a basic thematic element and begin with appl...
by Bob Charron
Thu Jun 19, 2003 3:20 pm
Forum: Research and Training Discussion
Topic: Charron test cutting
Replies: 231
Views: 188152

Re: speed and force - study & interpretation

Stewart, Of course looking at other master's work helps, and gives insights into how things may be done. I find the German material differs quite significantly. I have gained the most insight from references in other Italian masters, mostly where another Italian master will use the same phrase that ...
by Bob Charron
Thu Jun 19, 2003 12:39 pm
Forum: Research and Training Discussion
Topic: Vadi: all unterhau done with false edge?
Replies: 73
Views: 69873

Re: Vadi: all *rota* done with false edge?

Matt wrote:
"Is 'Punta Reversa' from Pisani-Dossi Bob? In Getty it is called 'Punta Falsa' or 'Punta Corta' only. "

My bad Matt. That's what I get for working from memory. Good catch.
by Bob Charron
Thu Jun 19, 2003 12:36 pm
Forum: Research and Training Discussion
Topic: Vadi: all unterhau done with false edge?
Replies: 73
Views: 69873

Re: Vadi: all *rota* done with false edge?

Stewart,

Point taken on Vadi vs. Fiore.

Please see my post on page 6 of this thread for my explanation as to why I believe he does it this way.
by Bob Charron
Thu Jun 19, 2003 12:33 pm
Forum: Research and Training Discussion
Topic: Charron test cutting
Replies: 231
Views: 188152

Re: speed and force - study & interpretation

Stewart, I can study other masters without practicing them regularly, nor delving into them more deeply. I can keep my Fiore separate because I am committed to doing it. I suppose it is the same with anything :-) Of course you find valuable cross-references. As long as you make sure you're not graft...

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