Leg protection, Cricket pads?

[Mike West]

How would cricket pads be for leg protection if used with the padded weapons, or other things like kendo sticks (shinai?)

[JeffGentry]

Hey Mike

How would cricket pads be for leg protection if used with the padded weapons, or other things like kendo sticks (shinai)

I think they may work ok, i personaly am kind of a minimulist when it come's to protection, i think alot of the sparring waster or padded, is about control myself, block and displace with strength and hit with enough strength do what you want to do whether it is displace or get a good touch to indicate a kill.

Jeff

[KatherineJohnson]

I dont see any need for leg protection with padded weapons.


Head protection? Eh, maybe. Legs? nah..only for waster sparring maybe. I'd probably use muay thai type shinpads for that since they allow for plenty of movement while still providing decent protection.

[Shane Smith]

I protect the lead knee with a pad only and wear a cup to protect everything else of value in that area. <img src="/forum/images/icons/wink.gif" alt="" />

[JeanryChandler]

Helmets Maybe?

Ok, I gotta call you out on that one. I can knock out any human being with a head blow from my padded weapons, without neccecarily wanting to. You have to wear a helmet!

I would say you really have to wear hand protection as well, and a cup is a good idea, as is throat protection if you are doing a lot of thrusting. Beyond that I dont worry too much.


JR

[GaryGrzybek]

Agreed, you must protect the head and hands when sparring.

I even ask the guys to sometimes wear fencing masks for drills that bring the point close to the face. Those half sword and dagger drills can be risky especially with the novice.

[Jake_Norwood]

Well, there's some history on Kat's relationship with helmets. I've hit her in the head a few times.

"You should get a helment, Kat."

"Nah."

"But then I don't have to worry about hitting you in the head."

"Don't worry about hitting me in the head."

"Uh, Okay..."

Jake

ps Kat- Email me.

[JeanryChandler]

I have GOT to spar with this person <img src="/forum/images/icons/smile.gif" alt="" />

J

[JeffGentry]

Hey guy's

You can still knock some one out even with them wearing a helmet, and i never wear hand protection, i aim for the hand's and try not to hit them so hard that i might break a finger seem's unnecessary to hit there hand that hard.


How much force do we need behind a strike to take someone's head/arm/leg off or cut them in half through there torso with a real sharp?

Jeff

[JeanryChandler]

I think you have to hit somebody hard with a sharp to be sure to hurt them, actually. You should strike and cut with maximum force.

It's really beside the point though. When I'm sparring half-speed, I spar half-speed and your hands are probably safe. If I'm sparring full speed, it's full speed, I don't pull my strikes (except for real obvious coup-de grace sometimes). I personally find I have to strike fast and hard to get my blows in fast enough, perhaps I have less control than some other people.

Dont forget also that hands can easily be hit by deflected strikes and in parries and binds, as well as intentionally. 0

Bottom line, I've seen people get hurt due to not wearing helmets and gloves, my own hand has been seriously messed up a few times so gloves I wear, and helmets definately every time.

Jeanry

[TimSheetz]

Jeff, not very hard at all.... BUT their clothing will really affect how much you cut.

No clothing = severance if it is a decent clean hit on flesh... as long as it isn't into the skull... then you won't sever...

Those who have test cut on carcasses can comment further.


Tim

[Shane Smith]

As for me,I'm striking as hard as passable form will allow <img src="/forum/images/icons/wink.gif" alt="" />

[Mike West]

One person said (thank you) that Crickit pads (the big white ones for the legs, and knees) might work. How about the rest of you? Will they work for padded weapon, waster, shinai?

[Matthew_Anderson]

Well, this seems to have transformed into a general discussion of protective gear for sparring, so I'll jump in 'cause it's kind of an important issue to me. I think it's good to differentiate between armoured and unarmoured fighting, just as the masters did. if you are practicing blossfechten, you shouldn't be armouring yourself up too much, even with modern, lightweight equivalents like sports gear, because it will totally change how you fight and how your training partner fights against you. With practice, you can safely do very spirited training and sparring with padded weapons, wasters, and even steel blunts with pretty minimal protective gear. I think a three-weapon fencing mask and a cup for males is really all you need if you develop and practice good control. You can add knee and elbow pads and perhaps some lightly padded gloves if you like, but any more than that and you will start to change things too much I think. The more you and your partner cover yourselves with protective gear, the harder you will hit each other, the more you will attack the most heavily "armoured" areas, and you may find that you actually injure each other more than you would without so much "protection". I know it sounds strange, but the worst injuries I have had were when I was wearing the most protective gear. I sustained a broken thumb wearing hockey gloves, for example. The specific question of shin protection is a mute point to me. In fact, I can't remember the last time I get hit hard in the shin. I now routinely drill and spar with only minimal protection, focusing on protecting myself with technique and the control excercised by my partner, and I rarely get hurt, even going against strong, hard hitters like Shane and Joel. I guess the level of pain or discomfort you are willing to put up with is an issue as well. To me a bump, bruise, or sore finger, knee, or elbow isn't an injury. I accept tender fingers, a little swelling, maybe a big black bruise every now and then as part of training. I'm not a "bad ass" or tough guy, but I don't think you can really learn a martial art without taking some lumps now and then. Remember, "what hurts, teaches".

[JeanryChandler]

I understand where you are coming from, but I do not agree with you on all points.

I am not claiming to be an expert on WMA by any means, but I would like to state my opinion on this because I think it is important. This is just based on my experiences doing stick fighting a long time and WMA for a couple of years now.

I agree that most training (i.e. drill) and half speed sparring can be done carefully as you say with experienced partners. In this case you may not need hand protection or any kind of helmet other than a three weapon fencing mask. You could probably do this kind of thing with wasters in fact or even the aluminum swords some people use.

But I think the primary reason to use padded weapons is so that you can safely simulate a real fight in full-contact, full-speed sparring. This means striking hard at all parts of the body including the back of the head, which means fencing masks are unsuitible, and at the hands, which means you have to wear gloves.

To be frank I think that too many people are using substandard padded weapons which are so poorly made that they do not allow even remotely accurate sparring. I think people should use weapons which are FLAT, have discerinable edges, are tight and firm but also padded enough to be unlikely to break bones, and are of accurate weight and balance of a real sword (2.5 - 3.5 lbs for a longsword or a bastard sword)

In short a padded weapon should handle and feel and be shaped almost identically to a very good wooden waster.

I feel that when you are using padded weapons, this is the time to go all out, because this is your opportunity to test WMA technique at absolutely maximum speed and intensity. I believe if our ancestors had duct tape and foam rubber they would have done this too, and I frankly think that padded weapon sparring is, while only one small part of the equasion, a vital part of WMA training which keeps it honest.

I frankly feel doing drill you should use steel blunts or wasters if possible so that the level of danger is up a bit, and your attention stays focused. When you are using the padded weapons that is your opportunity to cut loose as you would in a real fight, that is what they are for and that is what you should do with them.

As for injuries, I'm not claiming to be any tougher than anybody else but i dont want broken bones. I'm used to a few bruises after practice, i even kind of like them in a sick way for some reason. But fractures and concussions are out and that is what I make my weapons to avoid, and thats why I wear a good strong lacrosse helmet and padded gloves when I spar. I agree though that much more protection than that is unsuitible for training for unarmored combat, though some people like to use a padded gambeson, jacket, or vest. I think that is historical, certainly, and may be acceptable for people that need it. I haven't really decided 100%.

Jeanry