Footgear in practice

[ColinWheeler]

I'm curious about what general thoughts the ARMA populace has on footgear in practice. I know what JC prefers, the slipperlike soft shoe that gives maximum grip from odd angles and great kinesthetic feedback in terms of feeling the ground/surface beneath you. However, I have strong reservations about the utility of working primarily in such footgear. For one, if I am studying a set of combative skills that are meant for the battlefield as much as for civilian dueling or judicial combats, then a sturdy boot should also be part of the trainging gear. I cannot imagine being in the press of melee (with many stamping feet, dropped weapons, and other perils) without heavy leather boots. The soft slipperlike shoes I see in some of the engravings in the manuals are being worn in the context of training that is no longer a purely martial activity. In my own training, I feel that it behooves me to practice both in soft-soled athletic "slippers" as well as my Herman Survivor steel toes, so that I can move comfortably ( if differently) in both. My boots do not give me the incredible grip and all-angle traction my athletic slippers do, but they are a considerable threat in of themselves. I can crush toes, break shins and knees, and withstand severe blows to my feet while wearing them. A tactical trade-off, of course, but one worth practicing both sides of, IMHO.
What do you folks think on this?

Colin Wheeler

[JeffGentry]

Hey Collin

Since we have been indoor's at the MA school i have practiced a few time's without shoe's, and we are required to wear any shoe not worn outside so i wear "water shoe's", generaly though i wear a pair of slip on casual shoe's that are my everyday shoe's, I definately don't wear anything special or out of the ordinary.

Jeff

[Jake_Norwood]

To the best of my knowledge, boots were not worn in combat by the combatants in our period of study, cavalrymen perhaps excepted. Even the boots of the period would have provided little more protection than shoes, they all being made of the same material. The landsknechts (which I'm sure I misspelled) are always depicted in their full battle-rattle and wearing shoes or slippers...never boots.

There is a certain modern romance with boots, but it's just that--modern romance. No manual anywhere that I'm aware, whether it's a later drill manual for infantrymen or earlier sword and buckler or longsword books show anyone in boots. OTOH, there are recorded fights in the 17th or 18th century where the combatants removed their heeled footwear before attempting to kill one another.

I train in light kickers, kung-fu shoes, or slipperlike watershoes.

Jake

[Mike Chidester]

I used to train in combat boots, since they're my footwear of choice for every-day life. But one practice I came in sneakers, and I've never gone back. The difference was incredible. At some point I'll probably get some of those slipper-like shoes, but for now my old, beat-up running shoes work.

[Ray Brunk]

I also train in light shoes. I prefer wrestling shoes or soft sole low profile sneakers. They provide the best traction, speed and mobility. If anyone is "lucky" enough to see real sword combat, and they find themselves wearing work/combat boots........I bet they don't slow them down too much as there may be more important issues on their mind.
We can only hope.....lol
Train hard & smart , it'll all come together in the end.

[GaryGrzybek]

I usually wear soft thin soled sneakers or short laced moccasins. I've tried water shoes but they tend to slip around on my feet too much. I used to have a pair of wrestling shoes that were really comfortable and served me well for years.

Next I'd like to try a pair of historical based shoes from Revival Clothing or Armlan.

[Matthew_Anderson]

I like wrestling shoes. They have virtually no heel and thin soles, give good feel of the ground or floor beneath you and won't interfere with proper fencing footwork. I don't think I could move properly in thick soled boots, especially if they had a tall heel. And I think Jake's right, most period footwear was pretty light and flimsy by modern standards, mostly thin leather turnshoes, low cut or ankle height, no heel, thin soles, etc.

[Casper Bradak]

Likewise. I always wear wrestling shoes. I sometimes buy those high top maccasin/leather shoes that mrl deals, but they tend to wear out quickly (great for martial arts though).
I've also seen boxing and martial arts shoes do very well (they're basically wrestling shoes).

[GaryGrzybek]

I found it's really difficult to break people out of the heavy boot habit. I just don't have the finesse in those big clunkers. I've even gotten a few people in jeans...man that's way too binding <img src="/forum/images/icons/tongue.gif" alt="" />

[David Craig]

I've even gotten a few people in jeans...man that's way too binding

Definitely. I prefer sweatpants. Wearing a gambeson &amp; a sweater when we are out in the cold my upper body is already kind of restricted. I don't need my lower body restricted too <img src="/forum/images/icons/smile.gif" alt="" />.

[Aaron Pynenberg]

Totally agree, boots do not cut it-way to clumsy, wrestling shoes are the way to go, I have worn through two pair all-ready though so I buy some good ones.

I was going to ask, what do people wear as far as the more historically accurate types? Which manufacturer etc? I am putting together a histrical uniform and good shoes are getting to be an issue- Thanks, Aaron

[GaryGrzybek]

I haven't purchased any of their shoes yet but it looks promising. The only issue I have with historical footwear is that they don't often work well on modern surfaces. You may find yourself skating around the gym <img src="/forum/images/icons/smirk.gif" alt="" /> Anyway, I plan on getting something for occasional training and dress.

http://www.armlann.com/

http://www.revivalclothing.com/

[Shane Smith]

Another vote for wrestling shoes from me.

[Jared L. Cass]

What do you mean Aaron (I'm just being a smart a$$) ...I manage to move pretty well in steel toed combat boots <img src="/forum/images/icons/smile.gif" alt="" />

But seriously all, I train in generally three types of foot wear: my boots, moccasins, and bare footed.

The boots to me are my "reality training" footwear as they are what I wear 365 days of the year. Plus, in "real world context" they are a weapon I have with me constantly. It takes a bit (hardly noticable at all) of getting used to with some of the types of foot work and in working things such as kicks (again not really a problem since I don't waste too much of my time on kicks above the waist or really kicks period). Being that I live in Wisconsin, I also train quite a bit durring the winter wearing my pac boots. Now that's a real trip if any of you haven't tried it:)

The moccasins (a type of, in european terms, "turn shoe" basically) are for when I feel like being more historical. They take some getting used to as well and if a fellow messes up his footwork, the mistakes really stand out. They are a good footwork learning tool IMO. Great for hunting as well, but watch out for slopeing pine needle covered terrain (with a speep enoufgh hill/slope, it's like skiing with out snow) <img src="/forum/images/icons/smile.gif" alt="" />

Bare foot is to me for comfort and also for historical reasons. In wet soggy muddy conditions...bare foot can't be beat! One does run more of a risk of possible injury from wasters and blunts, though.

For leggings my prefference is for the BDU style pants. Comfortable, durrable, and a simular fit to the type of jeans I wear.

For those DIY type people wanting historical type shoes, they really aren't too hard to make. A simple patern, a chunk of leather, a bit of time, and needle and thread (you could actually do away with the thread and simply use leather thongs instead but that's not as durrable) is all one needs. Going by the price of some of those premade "historical" shoes, you could buy enoufgh leather to make 3 or 4 pairs of "turn shoes". Those not wanting to make their own pattern could also simply order a moccasin kit from say Tandy leather.

BTW, ARMA member Scott Adair made some awesome "bog shoes". He based them on the archiological finds in the bogs of Ireland. I don't know if Scott's got a digital photo to post, but for all interested, if Scott is reading this, maybe he could speak about the relative ease or difficulty he had in making them.

A quick google search for "medieval shoes", bog shoes", "historical shoe patterns", ect will turn up a nice assortment of information.

Jared L. Cass, ARMA Associate, Wisconsin

[Casper Bradak]

Heavy boots aren't always bad. Remember the lead soled shoes referenced by Master Silver for improving your footwork.