Knife Incident/ Interesting Observation

[Aaron Pynenberg]

Quick Police Story for you,

I was sent to a woman's home awhile ago, the report was that she was holding a knife on herself and wanted to committ suicide. I arrived with some back-up of course and found the woman in the kitchen holding a knife on her stomach.

She was about 5ft 5, and about 240lbs, so she was rather heavy, which plays into the situation. She was holding a 15inch butcher knife, with the tip pressed into her abdomen and both her hands folded over the back pressing the knife onto herself. She was wearing a long quilted night shirt which was made of a light cotton, (which also plays into the situation).

We negotiated with her at a distance for sometime until we decieded that it was time to do something, she was not going to be talked down from this and began pressing the knife into herself very hard. I could see the indentation betting bigger, and bigger. She was bearing down on it very forcefully. We deployed a tazer device on her and one of the probes hit her and the second struck the knife and deflected down into the floor.

She thought she would feel the effects of the tazer but because one lead was not hooked up, it failed. This caused a brief delay in her response, but then she realized that nothing was happening and again bore down on the knife pushing it harder.

We deployed another tazer this time hitting her with both leads and causing her to drop the knife. We took her into custody and I began to prepare to treat her injury from the knife, I looked at the site on her stomach, and low and behold nothing! Not even a mark-

In thinking about this, we decieded because she was a little thicker through the middle, the flesh gave way to the knife and did not offer a solid surface to resist the knife point. The key though was her cotton garment which was pretty similar to a GAMBESON. It protected her from the knife in an incredible way. I can tell you that she was putting alot of effort into that knife and I was shocked to see no injury whatsoever- pretty amazing and gives you something to think about in your training, just grazing someone with a blade is really not going to do that much damage, there must be some force to make the blade, "bite"- Yes, bye the way this was a pretty stressful moment in the evening, thought I would share it, Aaron

[JeffGentry]

Hey Aaron

Remember most kitchen knive's are made to slice or cut not stab, so there point's are not realy the best to gradualy stab yourself with, now a quick thrust is another matter.

Jeff

wish i got to play with a taser. <img src="/forum/images/icons/smile.gif" alt="" />

[Jay Vail]

Aaron,

When I got stabbed, it was November in Connecticut. I was wearing a cotton overcoat, a sweatshirt, a buttondown shirt, and an undershirt. The knife thrust when through all of them.

The clothing blunted the force of the blow and the injury was not as serious as it might have been, but did not stop the blow.

Regards, JV

[Aaron Pynenberg]

Makes sense, as I said at the end of the post there has to be some force behind it, she was applying slow steady, albiet hard presure. Like you said it blunted it, but it still went through. Would you mind sharing some more on this? What did it feel like? Did you have any time to react? Was there any displaying or posturing first? Did you realize you had been stabbed? What kind of first aid did you give yourself?

I hope you do not mind but we could probably learn alot from your ordeal- Thanks, Aaron

[James_Knowles]

Very interesting situation.

It's a lot easier to stab after your wind up and put force behind the blow with a sharp weapon, rather than trying DIY seppuku with a kitchen knife and a captive audience.

I don't mean to diminish the gravity of the scenario at all in saying many, if not most, suicide attempts like this are attention-grabbing stunts rather than "for real." Even so, it doesn't make the situation less stressful or less dangerous.

I'm glad everything worked out. Way to go!

[Aaron Pynenberg]

Oh there is no mistake about it-she was looking for attention, we have dealt with her before in similar suicide threats, just never with a knife. I was just surprised that she was not injured at all. I expected some kind of injury- I was just amazed that there was not even a mark, as she had pretty good preasure on it. Thanks for the comments, I am not trying to turn this into a "police chat" kind of thing, but thought that it was interesting that her night gown (which was pretty heavy cotton), and her skin giving way, was enough to save her from even the slightest injury- Later, Aaron

[Jay Vail]

Don't be shy about give us the police perspective. I've found over the years that police and corrections officers generally are more tuned in to the reality of self defense than many "martial" artists.

[GaryGrzybek]

It appears that gradual force can be less effective than shear velocity. If she had plunged the knife into her stomach I believe there would have been no stopping it. Of course it's never that simple giving the various conditions. Her ample supply of fatty tissue probably allowed for less resistance and aided in the lack of injury as you said.

Interesting story