Spanish Rapier

[Hektor Rodriguez]

I am a rather new Member of the Society for Creative Anachronism in the Middle Kingdom. In the middle Kingdom there are almost no practitioners of the spanish school of fencing (there is one who hasn't been seen for 6 years). I have taken an interest in it but am running into difficulties in finding any resources for it. I have been to the martinez school's main page and have ordered the DVDs but I am looking for other sources as well. If you have anything that may be of help to me please send me an e-mail at [email]HektorRodriguez@gmail.com.[/email] Thank you!

[Jeffrey Hull]

Available to the public courtesy of ARMA are these Spanish related sources:

Frederico Ghisliero’s rapier fencing which is related to Spanish style of Carranza:
http://www.thearma.org/essays/Regole.htm

Comprehension of Destreza -- *Alvaro Guerra de la Vega* -- which compares Spanish and Italian smallsword:
http://www.thearma.org/Manuals/destreza.htm

There are other publicly available Italian rapier resources, which may be of secondary interest to you.

JH

[Brian Hunt]

This website has some interesting material about Spanish fencing. http://www.destreza.us/ Keep in mind, there are two schools of Spanish rapier. There is the one that Caranza called Destreza, and the common form of fence that Caranza ridiculed and called "La Destreza vulagar," and was similar to the Italian school of rapier.

Hope this helps

Brian Hunt
GFS

[Francisco Uribe]

Just to help keeping things clear on this area.
According to my own reading and research on the style proposed by Carranza, this would have been developed not for rapiers, but for cut and thrust blades.
Pacheco, who must be the sole person who wrote the most about la verdadera destreza, describes cuts performed on wide circles. Such actions do not make any sense if using a true rapier.

In the spanish language the term "ropera" appears for the first time in an inventory of property for the Duke Don Álvaro de Zúñiga in 1468.
The term "espada ropera" or just "ropera" is very loosely used in spanish. It only refers to a tool that can be worn while in civillian attire...and is not indicative of a thrusting or a cut and thrust weapon.
Eventually la destreza de Carranza evolved with the years to a thrusting play, much more proper of a true rapier.
I believe that la destreza de Carranza is much similar to what George Silver does, than to the italian masters of true rapier, considering the type of tool involved.

And by the same token, la destreza vulgar is neither a school of true rapier fencing. It predates Carranza's ideas and it is probably what the common and noble was taught and used.... at least until Carranza.
In that regards it would be much more related to medieval swordplay than Carranza's propositions. If we were to believe that the term Ropera was in use as eraly as 1460s, we can safely asume that these swords were not used in a foyning fashion, characteristic of the true rapier..

Salud!

[Jeffrey Hull]

Francisco & Brian:

What you wrote was highly informative.

The questions about what be true rapiers and what be cut & thrust swords, and the who-where-when regarding such, deserve helpful answers. Clarifications like your statements are much appreciated.

And thanks to Hektor for the inquiry which broaches many such questions.

JH