Observations from period clothing

[Richard Strey]

Then you may be wearing the wrong kind of jeans. <img src="/forum/images/icons/wink.gif" alt="" />
Indeed, "normal" pants, jeans or other, are quite restrictive. Being a young adult (sue me!) I wear slightly baggy-style blue jeans. When training, I find them quite useful, as they don't restrict my movement, hold up to abuse well and I can wear protective equipment under them.
On a side note, this enables me to train in the clothes I'd most likely face a fight in. <img src="/forum/images/icons/wink.gif" alt="" />

[Jamie Fellrath]

Well, here's a question, then: What is it about sweats, etc. that is so restricting? Where does such clothing bind? I think it's obvious where jeans would bind, but clothes such as sweats shouldn't do that, you'd think.

[GaryGrzybek]

Yea, but did you ever get a good sweat going in 90% weather while wearing jeans?

Yuck <img src="/forum/images/icons/shocked.gif" alt="" />

[Jake_Norwood]

Actually, Jamie, I don't find sweats "restricting," and I train in them most of the time. They do "feel" different than more period-style pants, but in actual movement and mechanics I think the difference is too small to actually affect anything other than one's perception of how the clothing reacts to the movements. I wouldn't say that there's much (or anything) that period pants allow and sweats don't, exept for that "feel" of wieght distribution and light tugs at different places on your legs.

Other forms of modern pants, however--jeans especially but also slacks--restrict a lot of common motions in fencing (lunges and deep stances, mostly). Slacks have a tendency to "tear out the crotch," a sure sign of more tension accross an area than the pants can handle. Jeans don't tear, but that's because they're tougher. Even that shows how jeans aren't suitable--if they're cut like slacks, and slacks tear to allow proper movement, but jeans don't tear, then that means that jeans don't allow proper movement.

Does that make sense? I feel confusing today...

[Webmaster]

I think a lot just depends on your build and flexibility more than the actual material. I'm 5'6", 145 lbs. and wear Wrangler jeans everywhere. I've played tennis and basketball and even sport fenced in them, and it doesn't bother me to do a strong lunge in them. They do tighten up a bit when I do that, but not so much that it actually restricts me noticeably. I also do footwork drills around the apartment in them. This might not be the case for someone with longer, shorter, or wider legs than me, but I don't think twice about not being able to do something because I'm wearing jeans. My exercise sweats are so loose that I don't consider them a restriction at all.

This being my case, I think it's more about how the clothes fit YOU in particular than any general property of them (unless they're actually skin-tight or close to it). I still prefer to train in sweats, and I have no experience with period clothing, but I do agree that I wouldn't want to fight in slacks, or those skin-tight jeans some cowboys like to wear. I don't think you'll lose that much by training in comfortable jeans in your back yard, just don't wear black jeans with your ARMA shirt in public.

[Scott Anderson]

then of course there's armor, nothing else moves quite like it. chain to me feels like heavy sweats, plate... well it's plate, don't know quite how to explain it, anyone who's worn it knows what i mean though.

SPA

[TimSheetz]

HI Guys,

I have worked out in 'regular' jeans... not baggy or tight. Sure some movements cause you to notice your clothing more and I'd say that a deep lunge would be really noticed in jeans. Since I do long sword and other battlefield weapons and not rapier I didn't do a lot of lunging.

I have not sparred in hot weather in Jeans for a long time... In the winter/spring/fall, they seem to work OK.

I would say that historical type footwear would affect actions more than historical clothing, with the exception of armor. maille just doesn't stretch. <img src="/forum/images/icons/smile.gif" alt="" />

This may be a bit off topic, but I think for those who think of WMA as their method of self defense, training in the type of clothing you may find yourself wearing is probably a good idea.

Thanks!

Tim

[Jared L. Cass]

I've got to go with Richard on this one. If you get in a fight, what are you most likely to be wearing?

I for one, usually wear blue jeans (actually black, and yes, us young guys like them loose <img src="/forum/images/icons/wink.gif" alt="" /> ), a leather jacket and streel-toed combat boots (ok you can stop laughing now) <img src="/forum/images/icons/grin.gif" alt="" /> ...if I don't train in them on occasion, how will I ever know how they restrict my movement. I'd hate to get K.O.'d because I failed to take into account how my jacket gets tight across the shoulders when ever I raise my hands above my head...or how my heavy boots make my kickes slower...or.... You get the point.

Now, I'm not saying train in "street clothes" all of the time, just on occasion. Just to keep it extra real. <img src="/forum/images/icons/smirk.gif" alt="" />

Jared L. Cass, Wisconsin

[GeoffGagner]

I do agree that clothing shouldn't be an issue as far as your ability to perform overall. But it has been proven that proper clothing can effect training. Could I do Aikido without a hakama(might be scary) but yes I could do it in a parka if I had to. But training in it not only carried on a tradition but it influenced techniques(mostly footwork) even though it was subtle as well as helped to premote a certain attitude... as most uniforms do.

So for me or us in WMA I guess it comes down to how closely you wish to train as they did in the past? I personally see benefits in dressing similar to our predecessors because we may gain insights that we may not have if we were wearing sweats and Air Jordans.

As for the losing wieght thing... Funny thing, hehe I am actually in the process of designing a fitness program that will promote health and performance in WMA... That's one of those things that tends to make me chuckle about some of those ehem arm chair WMA guys... could you imagine them charging 100 some odd yards to engage in not one but multiple melee combats.... hehehe just picture it... its funny

Any way... being the writer I am I rambled a bit..... Tag Tim you're it.

[GeoffGagner]

I agree with Tim that the footwear is more important than the pants. Now I am not talking 100% purely accurate to the stitch shoes. But any of the assorted shoes(eg. kung fu boots) that give the same feel, support and so on as period footwear.

[TimSheetz]

I think to really get the feel for fencing in historical clothing you need to don the nice doublet and hose and the light weight shoes. A lot of the artwork shows folks quite nicely decked out in th ebaggy voluminous outfits. Ease of movement is not exactly what I think of for many later clothing styles (16th-17th Century).

Now the 14th and 15th Century styles seem a bit more practical for movement. But who wants to pay for all the clothes to grapple in them? :0

I think the best simple insights are thru the use of light foot gear. Ironically, the extremely light leather slippers I wore that seems to slide made many techniques much easier to execute.

Well, now that the ARMA International Gathering has been announced, I sre hope folks bring their Period garb to sparr and do some training in. This will be THE PRIME time to gain insights about historical techniques and how their clothing may or may not have affected them.

If you are going to teh event, REGISTER NOW!

gotta run,

Tim

[DavidEvans]

I'm involved in 16th and 17th Century re-enactment in the UK and feel that after 18 years I can fairly confidently say that the clothing you wear affects the way you move. Having done late 16th Century High Gentry I can honestly say that the styles worn massively affect the way you walk, stand, dance and ride. The lined and interlined doublets affect the way you can bend your upper body. Breeches hooked to the doublet affect that again. You tend to move from the waist, you don't swing your arms so much, you don't slouch so much. Wearing sword and dagger affects your movement again, drawing sword is much more interesting. Wearing smooth soled leather shoes is...... <img src="/forum/images/icons/smile.gif" alt="" /> fun...... If you try the heavily padded and lined/interlined doublets then you're almost slash proof. . Try it, It's fun! <img src="/forum/images/icons/wink.gif" alt="" />