Knights training

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William Savage
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Knights training

Postby William Savage » Wed Nov 30, 2005 8:09 pm

Although i love medieval martial arts and medieval history, i must admit that it all stems from a childhood love of Knilghts alone. Not magic king Arthur Knights, but Knights like Roland and William Marshal.
So I was wondering what would a Knights training include. Say if someone wanted to train like a French Knight of the 14 century. What would their training include.

Heres my best quess excluding chevalorey(the horse stuff)

Long sword
sword & shield
quarter staff
pole axe
dagger
wrestling
? maces ?
? flails ?
? axes ?
? bucklers ?

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William Savage
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Re: Knights training

Postby William Savage » Sat Dec 03, 2005 10:15 pm

why isnt anyone responding to this? doesnt anyone have an oppinion on what fighting styles a knights training would or wouldnt include?
I think it is interesting and relative to this forum and appologize if it is not.

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Brian Hunt
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Re: Knights training

Postby Brian Hunt » Sun Dec 04, 2005 12:26 am

It is an extremly large question you have asked. Why not try to narrow it down. A knight's training included a great deal of things besides fighting. Riding, dancing, tactics, courtly duties, etc. Are you wishing to just discuss their specific training as reguards to the martial side of things? If so, how about a more specific question. It would take a minor paper to begin to cover some of what you have listed.

all the best.

Brian Hunt
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Bill Tsafa
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Re: Knights training

Postby Bill Tsafa » Sun Dec 04, 2005 7:36 am

hmmm, I'll assume you mean martial training at the hight of the middle ages. According to Lichtuener, the German fight master, a knight should know spear, longsword, dagger. He also covers sword and buckler and wrestling in his manual. A knight should of course be trained to fight on horse back and foot.

Of course this is just one mans idea of knighthood who put it to paper in the early 1400's. I am sure you had many competing masters in his day who might have stressed other weapons. As you are aware, pikes, flails, maces, axes were also very popular in that period. But one would think if you master the spear and longsword the transition to pike should not be too hard.

As i said geography and time played a big roll. Of course the Roman Equistrians (knight class) did not practice longsword in the 1st centuary. Neither did the Athenian knights in ancient Greece at 500 bc. Yep, I forget what they where called but they had knights in ancient Greece. You see, originaly Knighthood was related to wealth rather then martial skill. In Athens to be a Knight the requirement was that you had to own two horses. Of course to own horses you had to own enough land for them to graze on.

You said above you where interested in French Knights of the 1400's. I think at this point they had already started moving towards paid soldiers. That is what killed knighthood. After the fall of Rome in the west, lords would give land in return for militery service. Not money. The monetary system was not stable yet. After the 1400's and into the 1500's as the monoarchies in europe somewhat stablized it became cheaper to hire soldiers when you needed them rather then give them land. This process did not happen at the same time throughout Europe. So again you see this all come back to land. The exception to the land rule for knights is the Crusading knights who where formed to protect the holylands

If you want to learn the specific way of using the weapons i mentioned earlier. I recommend a Tobler's book. Secrets of German Longsword fighting. Windsor also wrote a great book on longsword fighting. I recomend you start with Windsor, it is a beter introduction. Toblers book is better to read after because it is more detailed. I have a more complete list of books at the bottom of my webpage:
http://mysite.verizon.net/tsafa1/swordreview.htm

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Rod-Thornton
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Re: Knights training-some advice

Postby Rod-Thornton » Sun Dec 04, 2005 7:41 am

A good question. My thoughts are to suggest that you pick up a copy of Sidney Angelo's treatise, "The Martial Arts of Renn. Europe" and read directly many answers to your questions. That book serves as a good start to indicate exactly what martial arts were important to the knights of the day, and include descriptives on Foot Combat (Chpt. 3) Staffs (IV), Bare Hands/daggers/etc (Chpt. 6&7), Mounted Combat with lance/polearms(CHPT 8), Mounted Combat with Cut/thrust/smash (Chpt 9) and a section of duels, brawls, battles.

After you get through all 376 pages, you should be nearer the answers to your questions....although you may find you develop just as many new questions in the process. Good luck.
Rod W. Thornton, Scholar Adept (Longsword)
ARMA-Virginia Beach Study Group

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William Savage
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Re: Knights training-some advice

Postby William Savage » Sun Dec 04, 2005 4:38 pm

Thanks a lot guys. And sorry about not being clearer in my questioning.

what i meant to ask was what spacific weapons/fighting styles not including those on horseback would a knight be trained in.

I set the scene in early 1400s france because I knew they were late to start replacing knights. Also at this point the arms vs. armor dynamic would be simular to what I am most interested in and enjoy most.

But thanks, even with my sloppiness youve managed to give some good answeres.


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