MY ALBION SWORD HAS BENT

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William Savage
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MY ALBION SWORD HAS BENT

Postby William Savage » Sun Jan 29, 2006 8:51 pm

This post is in no way complaining about the quality of the Agincourt sword I received from Albion. I loved it when I got it and I love it now that the tip is bent.

The reason I'm writting is for advice. First is it a misconception of mine that attacks on a pell are done at full force, and second is one not supposed to attempt thrusts on a pell?

And lastly does anyone think I should try and fix the problem myself with a hammer and anvil in my garage, although I have no expeiriance blacksmithing. Or should I see if Albion swords will fix it.

The bend is just at the vary tip, less than an inch of deformation, but I cherrish this sword and would like to see the bend corrected.

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Travis Beamon
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Re: MY ALBION SWORD HAS BENT

Postby Travis Beamon » Sun Jan 29, 2006 9:17 pm

a question ive been contemplating as well for my albion Clontarf
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JeffGentry
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Re: MY ALBION SWORD HAS BENT

Postby JeffGentry » Sun Jan 29, 2006 9:59 pm

Hey Gent's

I would call and ask, see what they say, at worst they may charge a fee and do a refurbishment, after all that is one of the service's they provide.


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Brian Hunt
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Re: MY ALBION SWORD HAS BENT

Postby Brian Hunt » Sun Jan 29, 2006 11:56 pm

Speaking as a amature bladesmith, you would be much better off sending it off to an expert to fix. You may make the problem worse if you attempt to fix it cold, and may even break the tip off. If you attempt to fix it hot, you will most probably ruin the fine temper of the blade.

just a thought.

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I. Hartikainen
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Re: MY ALBION SWORD HAS BENT

Postby I. Hartikainen » Mon Jan 30, 2006 4:59 am

About the use of a pell, if it's a wooden thing, don't hit it hard, that'll break your sword (as you've noticed) and also your wrists. Don't think too much about the actual impact, think about what you do before that and after that. Practice for control, timing and accuracy.

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Re: MY ALBION SWORD HAS BENT

Postby Peter–Johnsson » Mon Jan 30, 2006 5:56 am

Really sorry to hear that!

The best is to contact Albion and hear what can be done, if anything.

A sword is never built to attack hard unyildig targets. Even a massive opponent has some give to him.
You do not fell trees with a sword, and so should not attack a pell with full force.
The sword might take it, for a while at least, but in the end it *will* suffer.
If you do train cutting and trhusting with your sword (this is what it was built for after all) make sure your tagets *can* be impaled or cut through. If they are too stationary, massive and unyilding, the destructive power you load into your attack will harm the sword intstead of the target. The force has to go somewhere.

Much better use a blunt steel sword for this kind of beating. That is what training swords are made for.

The sharp sword should, to my mind, be sed to develop technique rather than force and stamina.

If you want a long using life for your sword pick you targets with some care. If you do not mind wear and more frequent maintentance, then go ahead and beat anything that is at hand. As long as the sword can be resharpened and restored you can keep using it. Restoration is tedious work however, and not much is gained from it really. You are better served to use other tools for frequent heavy impact traning and save your sword for actual cutting or thrusting at approporate targets.
To get an idea of what the sword was made to do, look at it: does it seem to be a cutting sword or a thrusting sword?
Is the cross section crisp and delicate, or is it beefy?

Take care to form an idea of how you sword is best put to use.
Think of it like a tool or a vehicle. Not every tool is a hammer, not every vehicle a hummer. Each for its specific task.
A sword is built to take a lot of punishment, but it can still be destroyed in an instant if put to improper use. That is not a matter of quality, it is a matter of intention and function.

Many medieval swords were used to oppose the armour of their time. We must understand that a sword will seldom defeat the armour itself. It is meant to defeat the guy *inside* the armour.
The sword must survive the harsh combat, but it is not realistic to assume there would be no marks on the weapon or the armour afterwards. By "surviving" is meant that the sword can still function as a weapon. Even a nicked edge will kill and maim, but it will take soem work to restoire it to full shaprness afterwards.
A bent blade is not so good however. That means the blade was overstressed. I cannot say if the blade yeilded at an unreasonably low force or if you applied more force than was needed for an effective cut or thrust. That is difficult to know if the target cannot be impaled or cut through.

There might be reason to look over this blade design again. I don´t know. The design as it is now is not outside what you see on originals. Many are even slimmer in their proportions but others are of course stouter.
(the big twohanded tourney sword of Henry VIII is thinner in the point for example).

It is also good to keep in mind that historical swords also got scarred from sharp use. It is very evident when you look at originals. They are frequently nicked and bent. It is what happens in a fight.

The more realistic and authentic swords we want the closer they are going to perform and deliver like these originals.
A sword is resilient, but never indestructible.
Even if it stands up well for a while, if you keep submitting it to heavy use it will in the end suffer the effects of material fatigue. I think that is what we saw happened to the Raven sword, John posted about on a separate thread. from what he said it had done good job at difficult targets for years. Still, you cannot expect a thin sharp edge to keep cutting or withstanding materials of similar hardness for ever without submitting to fatigue. The swordsman can rest when he is tired, but the sword will only take the punishment untill one day it chips, bends or breaks. There is no healing for a sword, only possible resharpening and straighetning.

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Re: MY ALBION SWORD HAS BENT

Postby Bill Tsafa » Mon Jan 30, 2006 6:43 am

William, I am wondering what type of target you hit? Is it one that did in fact give?

I practice on a tire-pell that you can view on my webpage. On two seperate occasions I was practicing with highly tapered thrusting swords with accute points. The sword did not bend at the tip from the tire, it is very flexible and gives, but on one occasion I accedently hit the ceiling and on the other I accedently hit the floor. The result was a tiney bend in the very end of the tip. Used a pair of pliers to straighten it out and then touched it up with my sharpening stone. It was good as new. The next time I buy a thrusting sword I will insist on one that has a thicker cross-section in the tip.

I have one pointy sword (single hand) were the cross-section near the tip actualy gets thicker and rises higher then the cross-section futher back on the blade. That design has prooven flawless in my very demanding pell-work. The tip still cuts because it is moving faster then the rest of blade when I strike. So it does not need to be a razor.

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Brian Hunt
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Re: MY ALBION SWORD HAS BENT

Postby Brian Hunt » Mon Jan 30, 2006 7:52 am

Hi Peter,

Great post. That is really great advice on what a sword can and cannot absorb as punishment.

Thanks

Brian Hunt
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Travis Beamon
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Re: MY ALBION SWORD HAS BENT

Postby Travis Beamon » Mon Jan 30, 2006 10:30 am

Well, the bend in my sword occured when testcutting some heavy targets and a cut wasnt made cleanly through. When the target fell to the ground the person cutting didnt allow the sword to fall with the sword, creating a large bend in teh sword about 10 inches down the blade.

Id love to get this fixed, and I have contemplated calling albion but i dont have the resources right now to pay for its fixing, but I guess i'll talk to mike anyhow.

-note- my love for the sword is in no way lessened and I think it to be an amazing work

Thanks for the advice Peter!
-travis
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GaryGrzybek
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Re: MY ALBION SWORD HAS BENT

Postby GaryGrzybek » Mon Jan 30, 2006 11:57 am

Same thing happened to my Baron. The blade stuck half way through a large rolled up newspaper target that was soaked in water. It was so dense that it probably weighed 6 pounds. I mean this thing was about 3 inches around.When it fell off the cutting stand it took the sword with it and put a set in the blade. I tried really hard to follow it down but it was too late. In no way did the sword fail. The target was just too difficult. I carefully bent the blade back in a gentle arc and it seems to be okay now. Mike said they would take care of it if it gives me any further problems. Great swords, great service. That's all I can ask for <img src="/forum/images/icons/wink.gif" alt="" />
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William Savage
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Re: MY ALBION SWORD HAS BENT

Postby William Savage » Mon Jan 30, 2006 2:41 pm

I think you guys are right, why risk damaging albions fine art further by fixing it myself. I'll just have to save my pennys.

And I had assumed that work on unyielding pells was done with sharps and feel really foolish for it, oh well i wont make that mistake twice.

And Mr. Tsafa I'v actually gained fespect for accutley tapering thrusting blades, the problem was that the sword was "too good" at thrusting and went in too deep. When my thrusts were slightly off the Agincourt blade flexed beautifly.

Thanks.

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John_Clements
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Re: MY ALBION SWORD HAS BENT

Postby John_Clements » Mon Jan 30, 2006 4:08 pm

I concurr re a pell. It was never intended to be struck at full force but to give you a target play off of. It's not a test cutting object, but one to develop your aim, your reach, your motions, and your range of attacks.


Re blades bending from cutting soft targets like wet newspaper rolls, well, that's a different matter....I don't think a good sword, even a tapering one (which still has a blade portion intended to chop and slice) should suffer a bend from this. I doubt one would have occurred historically after after striking down into an unarmored body cavity, for instance.

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Re: MY ALBION SWORD HAS BENT

Postby Lance Chan » Wed Feb 01, 2006 2:02 am

Well, your sword ain't alone. I cut flesh with the brescia spadona tip and it bent in both planes of the blade (edge and flat). I fixed it myself though by just pulling it back to the opposite direction with hands on a clamp.

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Randall Pleasant
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Re: MY ALBION SWORD HAS BENT

Postby Randall Pleasant » Wed Feb 01, 2006 7:07 am

John wrote:
It was never intended to be struck at full force but to give you a target play off of.
Full force hits on a pell too hard can also lead to tendonitis. <img src="/forum/images/icons/shocked.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forum/images/icons/crazy.gif" alt="" />
Ran Pleasant


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