Some Questions

[Attila DeWaal]

Hiya all. It's been a long time since I've been here!

I had some questions I was hoping you all you could shed some light on, a couple of things I can't test out for myself due to lack of materials and info:

First up, shields. I've found it very hard to find detailed information on shields. One thing I couldn't find answered anywhere is: Why are larger shields strapped to the arm, and how does this affect their method of use? See, I was theorising about it myself, and I get the feeling that shields held in the hand (a la buckler or norse roundshield) will be both more effective at blocking incoming blows as well as missiles. Yet almost all larger shields I've come across are strapped to the forearm. So... how does this work?

Secondly, quickdrawing swords with blades over 3 feet in lenght. Are there any methods for this? I finds lots and lots of info on how to use swords, but nothing on how to effectively draw one. I imagine there must have been ways, afterall, one could always be ambushed. So, any info on this?

Thirdly, Maille and Plate: How expensive were they and how hard to make in comparison. From what I understand, Maille is quite a tour to make, and that even a full suit of plate could be easier (but perhaps not cheaper). Could you guys shed some light on this?

Fourth and last: With plate armours (or just armoured sections), I notice that most only cover half a limb, and leave either the back half or inside half exposed, with (it seems) only padding there for protection. I have seen arms armoured in that way with maille on that inside for protection. However, leg plates never seem to protect more then the front. So I was wondering: Are there leg plates that cover the entire leg from front to back? And are there leg plates that cover only the front but have maille protection in the back?

Thanks in advance!

[Will Adamson]

As far as making plate, Brian Hunt helped me out a great deal in this thread:

http://www.thearma.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=22303

[Doug Marnick]

Re: the quick draw of a long sword.
Are you thinking of drawing a sword with one hand while a scabbard remains hooked on to a belt?
I would imagine at the precursor to a sudden battle, I would remove the scabbard from my belt, and pull with my off hand while drawing the sword with the other. That is, two hands pulling apart rather than one pulling from a fixed point. Then I would toss the scabbard aside whereupon I could possibly retrieve it later, assuming, of course, I survive.

To all: Is there any evidence or instruction of a scabbard being used to parry?

[Shane Smith]

Re: the quick draw of a long sword.
Are you thinking of drawing a sword with one hand while a scabbard remains hooked on to a belt?
I would imagine at the precursor to a sudden battle, I would remove the scabbard from my belt, and pull with my off hand while drawing the sword with the other. That is, two hands pulling apart rather than one pulling from a fixed point. Then I would toss the scabbard aside whereupon I could possibly retrieve it later, assuming, of course, I survive.

To all: Is there any evidence or instruction of a scabbard being used to parry?

When it comes to longsword, most source-texts don't even show scabbards at all. In the Codex Wallersteins armoured section, the moment the swords are drawn, the scabbards seem to disapear.

[s_taillebois]

As M. Smith has noted, many period illustrations do not show a scabbard in active use.
In most medieval battles, it took a while for battle lines to be formed. And since the projectile weapons of the era had fairly limited range (compared to a modern weapon), these armies formed primary lines on the field, often in clear view of the other side.
Generally, accessory gear, riding horses (as opposed to war horses obviously), and camp equipage were left to the baggage train at the rear. In addition to the loot, that's one of the reasons medieval armies often lost their impetus when their train was raided, or they raided the other sides train.
And anyway, for a cavalier, the sword was a secondary weapon...so just as well to have strapped it onto the horse. In more recent times, such as the English Civil wars, the Revolutionary and American Civil wars, that seemed to be a fairly common practice.
Also, there was a propaganda factor involved. For leaders, one of their most primary 'weapons', was actually their banner. Provided a rally point.... ie Jehanne D'Arc often was at the front of the battle for that function. A leader who did, as a expedient, use a sword as a rally symbol, would have made it useless were it unable to be seen. D'Arc as a example, carried a sword, but never used it for it's stated purpose...it was a symbol...

[Ben Michels]

Thirdly, Maille and Plate: How expensive were they and how hard to make in comparison. From what I understand, Maille is quite a tour to make, and that even a full suit of plate could be easier (but perhaps not cheaper). Could you guys shed some light on this?

I havn't dove into plate yet, although it's on the list, but I can certainly talk about my experiences with making maille. It's not so much 'difficult' as it is 'tedious'. The actual process of making the rings and putting them together is fairly basic. It just takes an immense amount of time and lots of movies to watch while doing it.

Too put it in perspective, I am working on a hauberk that goes down to mid-thigh and will include sleeves once finished. It is about 60-70% done and has taken up about 90 hours so far. Granted it is my first attempt at this type of project, so it might go faster in the future. Like I said, though, it is easy to understand and requires a very small amount of tools.

[s_taillebois]

M. DeWaal
On historical armor, have to also consider the raw materials/technology needed to start the process of making plate or mail.
In many late medieval/early Renn. contracts/tontines, one of the things which was usually listed/restricted was wood supplies. Whether it would be a forge attached to a fortification, or one associated with a guild...it still would take a substantial amount of fuel. And although there was some use of coal, it was limited. And the coke furnace hadn't quite been developed quite that early. So often the tensions over forests, was as much a matter of who was going to control the energy. Literally...
Also, water powered trip hammers and such were needed, for production in larger amounts.
Both these forges, and the water driven machinery...would have been their equivalent of 'high tech' and so (until later in the era...) were accordingly expensive.
So in some ways, the price of armour started to climb...before any was actually made...

[Jon Pellett]

Re scabbards, Fiore uses the scabbard defensively in his sword vs dagger plays. Quintino also mentions throwing your scabbard at your opponent using your drawing stroke (which actually works).

Cheers

[s_taillebois]

Re scabbards, Fiore uses the scabbard defensively in his sword vs dagger plays. Quintino also mentions throwing your scabbard at your opponent using your drawing stroke (which actually works).

Cheers

M. Pellet, good point. Perhaps since many use extant German sources, and to a limited degree English manuals...perhaps that is predisposing the answers to M. Dewaals original question.

On the costs of personal armament and armour. Although quality & costs did vary, proportionally quite expensive. Using a later example, the song 'schule' which was popular in the Napoleonic era; "I'll sell my spinning wheel, to buy my love a sword of steel".
Since a spinning wheel was an essential tool for a women's economic contribution...to sell one for a sword gives a sense of how expensive armament could have been. (*the song may be much older, however, first mention I can find is in the Napoleonic era)

Same idea behind the medieval tontine daggers and knifes...a valued item given away as a reminder of a pact.