Starting out - equipment?

[NicholasBurris]

Hi, I've been reading the articles on ARMA for a long time now and I'm really interested in teaching myself western martial arts. I'm wondering what equipment and information I would need to get started? I have been looking at John Clements book, Medieval Swordsmanship, and the With Intent wasters for sparring practice. Assuming I can find a sparring partner what sort of safety equipment would be best for using with the with intent wasters? Or should I go down an entirely different route for contact sparring? Are there other sources of information on the actual techniques than this site and John Clements book that anyone can recommend?

For solo practice with a pell or against the air I've been looking at Albion Arms for an authentic feeling sword, but that's a bit pricey for the moment.

Unfortunately there's no study group here that I'm aware of (Edmonton, Alberta) So I'll be mostly going it alone and anyone I find to practice with is most likely to be as inexperienced as I am....which is limited to a small bit of sport fencing that left me wanting for something....authentic. (why do I have to stay in this square anyway? )

[Timothy Gunther]

if you don't want to spend a lot on a practice swords I would look at these reviews http://www.sword-buyers-guide.com/medieval-swords.html ...make sure you actually read the reviews as some are better balanced than others and for you first practice sword IMO you should have one that is balanced nicely.

[NicholasBurris]

I've been doing some more research into what would be safe for contact sparring and it looks like Lancelot Chan's RSW with a fencing helmet and gloves would probably be the best to use?

I'm focusing a lot on the contact sparring because from my reading it seems like the best way to verify that a technique is valid and being executed properly.

[Timothy Gunther]

sounds good. you might also look into getting/making a padded doublet or something as there are always slip ups when you start even with padded weapons.

tho I still suggest you get an actual sword also as even the most realistic feeling foam weapon is not actually going to be as such considering its fatter and catches air more easily and a number of other things.

[Will Adamson]

If using a padded sword there is no need for extra padding such as a doublet or gambeson. Head protection, and perhaps gloves and joint pads are all you should go with. As you both get used to getting hit and get better at not getting hit, you should try to shed pads.

Do not forgo training with a waster in favor of more padded sparring. Many ARMA folks are shying away from padded sparring now in favor of wasters, both wood and plastic. Once you learn some control you will find that the wasters are far more responsive and just feel more like a real weapon than the paddeds. Keeping at least two paddeds in good repair is a tall order. I've given up on it and only make paddeds to test new designs.

Don't worry about a steel sword for a while, and save up for a good quality one. In the end, one quality sword will cost you less money than a cheap one followed by the better one. Of course there's nothing wrong with having multiple swords lying about the house.

IMHO one should go for a sharp for test cutting first. You can even do individual drills with a sharp as long as you are careful and know your limitations, both for your own sake and the sword's. Get a blunt only when you and a training partner both have the requisite control and trust to freeplay with them.

That's my story and I'm stickin' with it!

[Timothy Gunther]

If using a padded sword there is no need for extra padding such as a doublet or gambeson. Head protection, and perhaps gloves and joint pads are all you should go with. As you both get used to getting hit and get better at not getting hit, you should try to shed pads.

Do not forgo training with a waster in favor of more padded sparring. Many ARMA folks are shying away from padded sparring now in favor of wasters, both wood and plastic. Once you learn some control you will find that the wasters are far more responsive and just feel more like a real weapon than the paddeds. Keeping at least two paddeds in good repair is a tall order. I've given up on it and only make paddeds to test new designs.

Don't worry about a steel sword for a while, and save up for a good quality one. In the end, one quality sword will cost you less money than a cheap one followed by the better one. Of course there's nothing wrong with having multiple swords lying about the house.

IMHO one should go for a sharp for test cutting first. You can even do individual drills with a sharp as long as you are careful and know your limitations, both for your own sake and the sword's. Get a blunt only when you and a training partner both have the requisite control and trust to freeplay with them.

That's my story and I'm stickin' with it!

it appears to me that you think quality and price are synonimous which is right in most cases but not necessarily correct were swords are conserned as darksword armories and generation 2s swords have extremely good durability and are exceptional weapons for beginners even if they don't cost 1k$ or over like Albion swords.

as for no extra need for protection with padded weapons thats not always true either, as myself and a few of my friends have been hit in a nerve bundle and even with padded weapons that kind of pain is no fun at all, so better safe than sorry I would say especially with beginners.

other than thats I would say good advice.

[Corey Roberts]

The equipment you need to start of is simply this; a Waster,
for sparring/free play you will probably need the following protection: Hands, groin, head (I.E Mask, gloves and cup)

Also I would recommend building a Pell, and a thrusting target at some point.

In the future you will probably want a steel blunt but this is not necessary at the start.

And finally down the road a quality historically accurate weapon.

Have Fun!

[Will Adamson]

it appears to me that you think quality and price are synonimous which is right in most cases but not necessarily correct were swords are conserned as darksword armories and generation 2s swords have extremely good durability and are exceptional weapons for beginners even if they don't cost 1k$ or over like Albion swords.

Maybe it's just me, but I wouldn't use the word exceptional in regards to dardsword or Gen2. Although I agree that you could do worse. My Albion was not $1000. I went the cheap first sword route as well, which is why I'm offering this opinion. In my case, me cheap first was pretty decent for the $250 that I paid. It is an MRL from before they went all floppy.

as for no extra need for protection with padded weapons thats not always true either, as myself and a few of my friends have been hit in a nerve bundle and even with padded weapons that kind of pain is no fun at all, so better safe than sorry I would say especially with beginners.

I didn't say it wasn't going to hurt.

[Timothy Gunther]

exceptional is relative, and for beginners darksword and gen 2 are, considering they hold up against accidental direct cutting edge contact with hard objects which is nice as no beginner wants to deal with a chipped blade...actually I don't think anyone wants to deal with chipped blades for that matter also not many people I know would want to risk marring there expensive blades especially as a beginner.

i know it hurts a bit and any one can deal with that, however better safe than sorry when it comes to a few places on the body and there not just the head, hands, and groin.

[ChristineChurches]

Hmmm...Like Corey said, all a beginner needs is a waster - plastic or wood - and a pell to get started solo. When you have a partner with whom you can drill, you need protection for the head (our group in as Vegas uses fencing masks, but there are many options) and other delicate areas - hands, elbows, knees and groin - subject to the needs of the practitioner. Too much padding and you don't realize - or care - that you've been hit.

While padded weapons are lots of fun and do help to get people fighting in the beginning, it is difficult to do many techniques with them - most people just bash away because you can do so without the risk of serious injuries. When wielding a waster or federschwert, one is much more conscious of the fact that one is using a weapon, not a fortified pool noodle, and has much more respect for the weapon and their opponent.

On the topic of steel: While I believe in doing your homework online, I do not feel that you can truly appreciate the differences in quality by someone else's review of a blade. IMHO, until you tried techniques with a historically accurate sword, your decisions will be made based on personal preferences as opposed to what works. I cut with all my blades, regardless of their price, because that's why I bought them.

Just my two cents.

[Will Adamson]

exceptional is relative

Oh yeah!

I do need to point out that I used to do freeplay wearing a hockey helmet, lacrosse gloves and arm guards, and hockey shin guards while using paddeds. I have to say that I get more out of freeplay now with just gloves and fencing mask while using the WI wasters. Even with the gloves, I'm typing this with a stiff right hand thanks to Jim Tate...good shot Jim!

Basically, folks should use what they feel comfortable with, but understand the pros and cons of their chosen level of protection.

If one feels the need to have some sort of padding like a gambeson, a cheaper alternative you might try is a thick sweatshirt, sweater, or jacket. It'll be pretty comfortable right now with most of us in the coldest part of the year, but summer will be miserable.

Personally, I'm looking into a gambeson so that I can move toward steel freeplay. Once I get used to that I'll then take the gambeson off. With only a few other beginners in my area, and working on my own control, I'm not going to make the move to steel very soon. But getting new toys is always fun!

[Jaron Bernstein]

We finally have 2 feders (a Meyer and a Lichtenaeur) and have gone almost exclusively to using them. We are able to safely go at the same speed as plastics with helmets, gloves elbow pads and sweatshirt.

[Stacy Clifford]

i know it hurts a bit and any one can deal with that, however better safe than sorry when it comes to a few places on the body and there not just the head, hands, and groin.

Just a couple other things vital to practicing this art: humility, a slow temper, and a good sense of humor. You need them all whenever pain is involved.

[Timothy Gunther]

its hard to have humor when pain leaves you unconscious.

obviously no one here knows much beyond the extreme basics about the human body so I'll just forget about that kind of thing in the futre here...I'm
to used to eastern martial arts and the potential for being maimed in the simplest and most unthought-of ways and places.

exceptional is relative

Oh yeah!

please forgive me for I have been remiss in my analysis of your intellect and now comprehend that obviously exceptionalism cannot be relative when pertaining to entrant armaments.

[Stacy Clifford]

its hard to have humor when pain leaves you unconscious.

obviously no one here knows much beyond the extreme basics about the human body so I'll just forget about that kind of thing in the futier here...I'm
to used to eastern martial arts and the potential for being maimed in the simplest and most unthought-of ways and places.

I've been in ARMA almost 8 years now and seen plenty of hard fighting and have never seen nor heard of any member ever knocked unconscious in sparring. Nobody said don't wear necessary protection and nobody here is going to laugh at serious injuries like a broken bone (and again, fingers are the only thing I've ever seen broken). 99% of all the pain our members experience is just bruising, and when you get hit you need the humility to learn from it, the sense not to get angry over it, and the humor to laugh about it later when no permanent harm was done. As for knowledge of the human body, we have plenty of people here who can talk in great detail about the anatomy of pain and their own personal experiences with it. You have not been a member of this forum long, I would suggest not jumping to conclusions based on the few discussions you've taken part in here, you don't know anyone yet well enough to do that.