Seattle seminar

[Benjamin Smith]

Well like I said I can swing anything from the last week of May out through the summer and I can guarantee two people then, I might be able to talk another person or two into it.

[Jason Taylor]

I'm also probably able to make it if it's before July (getting married then). Missed the LV 1.0 due to scheduling difficulties. Hope you guys can nail down a date and get a good turnout.

Jason

[William Elder]

There is the Academia Della Spada is hosting the 4W event this weekend. I almost registered, but changed my mind when I saw the cost involved. Is this the event you were thinking of?

4W? Yeah, was thinking of going to that too, but same for me with the extremely high cost. A few of us were thinking of going, but all backed out when we saw the price, and unlike a good ARMA event, the schedule for it is a mixed bag where you would never be able to attend every class. Maybe next time and I'll save up for it since there were at least two classes I was interested in attending.

Ken, I'll have to take your word that 4W is not organized like "a good ARMA event", since I have never been to any ARMA event, good or bad. What I can tell you is that 4W is deliberately structured to provide attendees with in-depth instruction in a few topics rather than many shorter classes in diverse subjects, as is offered in many other venues. While we certainly can't please everyone, feedback from both instructors and attendees has been overwhelmingly positive so far. If you are looking for an event with more classes to choose from, I'd recommend ISMAC or WMAW...except for the issue of cost. With luck, the Seattle ARMA event will be closer to your ideal in both schedule and price.

I'm sorry that you and Brent both found the registration fee too high for your liking. You will find that at $195, the cost of 4W 2008 compares reasonably with other serious WMA workshops like WMAW and ISMAC as well as many Asian martial arts seminars offering fewer hours of instruction. As the one who keeps the books for 4W, I can assure you that Academia della Spada goes to a great deal of effort to keep the cost low while still providing a rewarding experience for participants and offering something approaching reasonable compensation to instructors. We're always trying to improve (except this week, when we're all popping ibuprofen and trying to catch up on sleep), so I would be interested in what folks think a reasonable price for 22 classroom hours of WMA instruction might be, and how much of that money you would expect to see passed on to the instructors...many of whom, it should be noted, fly cross-country at their own expense to teach at 4W.

Brent, I would point out that you did, in fact, register for 4W 2008. Then you then failed to either let us know you were not attending or to pay for your registration, even after we sent a reminder email asking for just that. Since many classes fill up before registration closes, what you did is an effective way to deny another student a chance to attend the classes he prefers. While you are certainly still welcome at 4W 2010, please understand that you may be required to jump through some additional hoops before we will accept your registration a second time. I certainly hope that, should you elect to attend the spring ARMA event here in Seattle, you will show your fellow ARMA scholars more consideration than you did those of the broader WMA community.

Lastly, as I am freshly reminded of the headaches involved in running such a workshop, let me wish the organizers of the Seattle ARMA event smooth sailing: no complications, no injuries, and good memories for students and instructors when the curtain falls.


William Elder
Not the 4W Registrar again until 2010, by the grace of God

[Stacy Clifford]

As far as costs go, there is one major difference worth noting between events like 4W and many ARMA events. Instructors at 4W are coming from many different schools and organizations and presenting to members of other schools and the general public, and thus they expect to make money for their participation (and fairly so). At ARMA events which are not open to the public, such as the International Gathering, our senior students are teaching fellow members of the same organization that made their research possible and often collaborated in it, and we usually ask for nothing more than travel and lodging expenses when teaching each other, which keeps costs down, although some stipend is frequently offered for the trouble. This generally allows our events to be cheaper than those with instructors who run for-profit enterprises.

[Gene Tausk]

As far as costs go, there is one major difference worth noting between events like 4W and many ARMA events. Instructors at 4W are coming from many different schools and organizations and presenting to members of other schools and the general public, and thus they expect to make money for their participation (and fairly so). At ARMA events which are not open to the public, such as the International Gathering, our senior students are teaching fellow members of the same organization that made their research possible and often collaborated in it, and we usually ask for nothing more than travel and lodging expenses when teaching each other, which keeps costs down, although some stipend is frequently offered for the trouble. This generally allows our events to be cheaper than those with instructors who run for-profit enterprises.

Good point, Stacy. After all, you and I (and the rest of the ARMA International Event group for 2007) were able to put together an event for over 100 people. We charged $100 per person and for this fee, the participants received:

- over 24 hours of instruction
- all meals
- t shirt
- entrance into raffles for various prizes (including a new laptop)
- lecture on swordsmithing from noted 'smith Kevin Cashen
- two lectures from John Clements
- several vendors in attendance who were able to display their wares for interested ARMA people
- probably something else I am missing but it is early in the morning for me

Also, we were able to hold the Event in a major convention center with A/C (important in the hot Texas sun)

Not bad for $100 p/p if you ask me.

[Brent Lambell]

Mr Elder, I apologize for not informing you of my desire to cancel the registration. Your concern is duly noted.

I hope that my comment on the cost of 4W did not appear to be a judgment regarding the value or quality of the event, I recognize many of the names there as leading researchers in the historical martial arts community. But as Mr Clifford pointed out, we are members of the same organization and (in theory) we use the same system to improve our own and one another's skill. I have chosen to save the money for our upcoming Seattle ARMA event as I had to choose one. I hope to one day not have to choose one and perhaps I can attend 4W as well in the future.

I am looking forward to seeing everyone in Seattle.

[Will Adamson]

- probably something else I am missing but it is early in the morning for me

Don't forget the beatings from Stew and Aaron!

After going through the process of organizing a small event, and especially in shopping around for a venue, I can tell you that the cost of the sort of space we had in Houston is quite a chunk o' change. Having all day in that facility alone, never mind getting meals and classes, with folks I call friends was more than worth $100.

[William Elder]

Mr Elder, I apologize for not informing you of my desire to cancel the registration. Your concern is duly noted.

I hope that my comment on the cost of 4W did not appear to be a judgment regarding the value or quality of the event, I recognize many of the names there as leading researchers in the historical martial arts community. But as Mr Clifford pointed out, we are members of the same organization and (in theory) we use the same system to improve our own and one another's skill. I have chosen to save the money for our upcoming Seattle ARMA event as I had to choose one. I hope to one day not have to choose one and perhaps I can attend 4W as well in the future.

I am looking forward to seeing everyone in Seattle.

Don't sweat it too much at this point, Brent. If your choice was between either 4W or ARMA Seattle, then I'll certainly not fault you for choosing the latter under the circumstances. Just let us know, in future, so we aren't holding you a spot. 'Nuff said.

And now I shall stop contributing to the hijacking of this thread, which properly should be about the spring ARMA event in Seattle, not 4W 2008. Thank you all for your patience with the digression.

-William

[Eric Chisler]

Any dates yet? I really need to start saving for the trip and buying train tickets in advance.

-Eric

[Kevin T. Crisalli]

All of us in seattle arma are still waiting to hear what's going on with this. if someone has any information, please contact me.

[Tom Richardson]

All of us in Portland ARMA are waiting to hear something about this as well.....

[Dave Rogers]

I've been lurking around the ARMA site for a few months and I'm interested in the possibility of a Seattle event as well.

I haven't joined ARMA yet but it looks to be just what I have been looking for. Are there many active members in the greater Seattle area?

[Craig Peters]

Any information regarding the date for this event would be helpful so that I can book off work in advance.

Thanks.

[Ken Dietiker]

Last I heard is it's being pushed back to late June/early July. Maybe even later. I know I need at least 30 days notice, so last minute scheduling wont work for me either. Hopefully this can eventually be nailed down and fixed with some decent advanced notice, whenever that is...

[Antonio Delgado]

I'm also interested in attending. If it's before July I should definitely be able to make it up to seattle. If it's in July or later hopefuly I still can, but my chances of attending don't look quite as good.