Sparring masks.

[Christopher Reed]

Hi everyone, I was just wondering if you guys used a particular type of fencing mask for sparing, some of the guys in my local group use hockey helmets or 3-Weapon FIE fencing masks. Now the hockey helms are good because of the concussion resistance, But the face mask on a hockey helmet will allow a sword to easily go through. but the fencing mask does not have some of the additional protection around the head that a hockey helmet would provide. I was wondering if any of you could advise me on what would be the best solution.

-Cheers
-Chris

[CalebChow]

Not sure on the availability of these anymore as this is an ancient picture (2003) but these helmets look really good:

http://www.thearma.org/photos/Gathering03/Misc/misc02.jpg

[Christopher Reed]

That is one of the ones that Brian Hunt from the Dwarven Smithy makes. At least it looks like one. The only issue is that he only makes about 4 a year due to time constraints and they are a little more money them i would like to spend at the moment. I have seen in some of the videos that most people wear general fencing helmets as well as the before mentioned hockey mask.

[Derek Shannon]

If you do a search through the forum on this topic, you'll find a lot of old posts about sparring helms. From doing that a few months ago, it sounded to me like 3-weapon fencing masks were the most popular, and hockey & lacrosse helmets next (some people modified them to add wire mesh or perforated steel over the face). Someone also mentioned using motorcycle helmets. And of course, Brian Hunt's sparring helms, which seem ideal to me.

I'm experimenting with making my own sparring helm at the moment, but if that goes badly I plan to just get the fencing mask below for now. (If anyone has comments about this particular mask, that would be appreciated.)

http://www.blue-gauntlet.com/store/products/306

[Ken Dietiker]

Derek,

For the same price you can get the "coach's" version with a black bib instead of that annoying white one.

http://www.blue-gauntlet.com/store/products/419

[Christopher Reed]

That one with the black bib looks pretty sweet, and the price is really good. I think i will probably get that one. Also I have to ask what is the likelihood of getting a concussion? One of the guys in my group was talking about fabricating the mesh screen onto th0se football helmets that have the special hard and soft foam that will help reduce the likelihood of getting one. I don't see how it will come into play because I thought you needed to get smacked fairly hard in the head for something like that to happen. I played hockey for 10 years and it never happened. I must assume I may have been very lucky.

[Ken McKenzie]

I haven't tried one myself, but Terry Tindall's masks (http://www.thatguysproducts.com/masks.html) masks look pretty robust.

[Sal Bertucci]

I only see a tiny risk of getting a concussion if you are sparring with CONTROL. If you've ever done any test cutting, or watched anyone else do some, you'd be amazed at how little pressure is needed to cleave things into pieces. You can make good hits with intent and not get a concussion. The biggest risk that I see is when falling down or wrestling.

On masks: I think that the fencing masks work great, and that is what I and the majority of other people I know use. (make sure you get one with padding on the inside) The only thing I don't like about them is that sometimes you'll get hit in the back of the head. (Especially with a traversing step)I've seen some people get around this with a cloth looking thing, and even an arming cap.

[Aaron Pynenberg]

Having used everything from standard three-weapon masks to Hockey Goalie masks, to just about everything in between.. I can say with some authority that Brian Hunts new sparring helms are the top-notch sweetest possible equipment available now.

They fit the bill for all of our specific needs, are light, comfortable, offer complete head and neck protection. They offer everything we need.

I will agree that he is a small one-man operation and turn-around time, can be problematic. But last I heard he was working to make that time tighter..as far as price-points, I think he is very competitive in that regard. There is nothing that comes close and price wise, it's a wise investment.- AP

[Jaron Bernstein]

Having used everything from standard three-weapon masks to Hockey Goalie masks, to just about everything in between.. I can say with some authority that Brian Hunts new sparring helms are the top-notch sweetest possible equipment available now.

They fit the bill for all of our specific needs, are light, comfortable, offer complete head and neck protection. They offer everything we need.

I will agree that he is a small one-man operation and turn-around time, can be problematic. But last I heard he was working to make that time tighter..as far as price-points, I think he is very competitive in that regard. There is nothing that comes close and price wise, it's a wise investment.- AP

No kidding! I have a Brian Hunt helmet and the gorget made a wicked waster thrust to the trachea in class one hour ago merely a good hit and not a bad injury.

[Jonathan Newhall]

I've found that as you transition from sparring to free sparring (the difference being one is a mere two-person exercise while the other is two people trying to actively engage and defeat each other) that the range of opportunities for injury increases by about... a zillion percent. Therefore while I don't have any of Mr Hunts' head gear, it definitely appears to be the very best piece for the task at hand. Preventing that wide a range of weapon-related injuries is pretty tough, but he's managed to get down exactly what is needed (neck protection, blunt trauma protection, face mask all in one!)

I'd love to buy one but I haven't the money at the moment!

[Shane Smith]

I use a three-weapon mask. Hockey masks aren't much good since a thust from a waster will go right through the grates in most.

Brian's mask is nice too but I don't own one personally. I simply must have one of the high-polish cod-pieces he makes though

[Jason Taylor]

Hey, Chris. Hope you can make it to our next session a week from Friday.

As for what to use with helmets, I honestly don't like the fencing masks. I have one, but the padding inside and the way its held on are just inadequate for any kind of real impact. Maybe some of the other types are better; I'm not sure. They also have virtually no protection to the back of the head. The other problem I have is the throat bib. God for an epee thrust, totally inadequate for a waster thrust. The problem with tyhis is that people on both sides of the sparring matchthink you have throat protection, but those little pads of soft foam with canvas don't really count. One of our guys on Friday had a new hard plastic plate on the bib, which might help enough, but it has yet to be tested with a trachea thrust or something. But off-the-shelf bibs just don't seem safe, so you do need to add something down there to be fully safe.

The hockey mask can be outfitted with the polycarbonate shield that protects the eyes far better than the regular grate ones. I have one of these. The problem is that I left it in the car too much, and it's lost most of its foam as the glue's gone bad. Also, I've lost a lot of miscellaneous pieces over the last 2-3 years. It's basically useless now except for eye protection. Additionally, the mouth is completely open, and since the worst injury I've seen at a practice so far was a broken tooth, that's kind of a bad thing.

I do like the idea of a modified hockey/lacrosse/football helmet, mainly because of price point. I like Brian's helms, but can't afford them in terms of time *or* money, so the professionally fabricated sports gear is looking pretty good. All those helmets, however, need both throat and neck protection.

Brian--have you thought about just selling the aventail/gorget pieces, or at least similar ones, that you'd attach to your helmets? I tried to check, but the site seemed to be down for some reason.

Jason

[Christopher Reed]

Jason my mother just mailed me my old hockey helmet and i can show it to you on Friday, it is one of the ones that Eric Lindros promoted because he used to get so many concussions with the hard and soft areas that i mentioned in one of my previous posts. I am also thinking about how i could fabricate a steel mesh to replace the cage or to just put a mesh over the cage, which in my opinion would reduce visibility.

I also understand where you are coming from with the neck protection with the fencing masks, Antonio had a pretty nice prototype of what he wanted to do on his but i think i may have found something even better. His bib though also has hard plastic underneath it which combined with he floating piece on the front should provide adequate protection, however this is just my hypothesis we really do not have any evidence to back it up. http://www.wintertreecrafts.com/gorget.html I stumbled upon this site while i was looking for equipment and it led me to an SCA site linking to it. by the looks of it and the materials supposedly used i feel it would be more then adequate to deal with a long sword thrust to the throat. which aside from the back of the head protection seems like it would do make up for the lack of padding in the bib. As for the back of the head protection i will speak to a friend of mine and see if we can't think up a way to better keep the mask in place and provide back of the head protection. I am looking at trying to copy the back piece of one of "that guys" helmets. The thing would seriously look like a part of costume from Fallout but if it provided the protection needed i think people would be able to put up with it.

"That guys" masks do look amazing and i wish i could get one, but the price and the wait time are what have me at the minute.

As for Brian's products i have no doubt his equipment is top notch but i am in the process of perusing my BS and really do not have much money to spend all at once. I just ordered two wasters from him and i really don't want to spend more money at the moment. I would also like to know how the ventilation is on those masks from any one that has one.

Also i really encourage anyone to wear a mouth guard, I don't know how many times it has saved me from costly dental bills. And a good mouth guard particularly a "shock doctor" will greatly decrease the amount of damage that can happen if you fall or get hit exceptionally hard.

[ElizabethPangerl]

I borrowed someone's (Jaron?) helmet/mask made by Brian Hunt at the 2006 Columbus Study Day and I thought it was absolutely wonderful. However, if you absolutely must use a hockey helmet, I would strongly recommend fitting it with something like the Itech ringette cage/visor combos instead of a hockey helmet cage. A longsword waster can definitely pass through a hockey cage, but a ringette cage is narrower because it's meant to prevent a hockey or ringette stick from going through.

Elizabeth