Ox/Window/Hanging Guard

[John Fowlds]

I was working on my footwork and guards and noticed some odd overlap between my materials -

In John Clement's Medieval Swordsmanship, the Hanging Guard is described as also being called the Ox/Ochs in German schools. The Window Guard is listed out of this book as also being called Hanging Point or Hangetorte.

Now, the guards listed on the main ARMA page show something a bit different, as does some YouTube videos and some other materials I have found on the web. From what I can gather, the Ox and Hanging are different, and the Ox looks similar to the Window just held higher, yet some material shows the Ox at various levels that make it seem similar to the Window. Maybe I am just getting worked up about nomenclatures and should just stick with pictures, but I don't have anyone in the area to really discuss these thoughts with.

Is this just an overlap from training manuals from centuries ago? Any thoughts would be helpful, I don't want to develop the wrong idea or a bad habit this early.

[Stacy Clifford]

Go with the stuff you see on the ARMA website, it's more up to date. Medieval Swordsmanship is almost 15 years old now and our understanding of the manuals has improved quite a bit since it was written. It still has quite a bit of useful information in it, but the listing of guards and stances in there is no longer what we believe to be accurate.

[william_cain_iii]

To be completely honest, unicorn, hanging, ox, and fiore's window are probably all subtle variations on the same concept of "sword held near your head, point toward your opponent." Anything the text says to do from ochs, I've found I can do from einhorn, for example.

[John Fowlds]

Thanks for the feedback, I didn't realize how fast WMA has evolved. That explains some other differences I have noticed with Medieval Swordsmanship as well.