Prize bouting at the Gathering

[John_Clements]

Now that we’ve all had time to recover and digest the event, I’d like to see everyone who participated in the Prize Playing for Tim Sheetz and Jacob Norwood give comments and feedback on it.

In my opinion, I witnessed the best bouting I have ever seen in all my years in the subject.
These were some superb fights, technically, tactically, martially, they were the highest caliber I’ve ever witnessed. I was really impressed.

The steel on steel exchanges with sword & buckler was very intense and over very quickly. I particularly liked the waster bouts where disarms and grappling were used and especially Eric W.’s throw of Tim. I recall one bout, not sure how, where after someone had their weapon seized and taken, and then in a second of delay as both just stood there, the disarmed guy charged and knocked his opponent to the ground. Hilarious. I also thought Stu vs Tim, and Todd S. vs Tim’s fights very challenging, as well as Jacob’s with Gene and Shane S.

Both Tim and Jacob were really "in the zone" as the bouts went on. So many opponents were taken out with single actions. We also noticed them slow down but get their second wind and come back stronger. I'd like to thank everyone who took pary in testing them.

So, what were some of everyone’s favorite exchanges and matches?

Any thoughts on how to improve future Prizes?


Full Photos Here

[Jake_Norwood]

For starters it was the most fun sparring I think I've ever had, though most of it is pretty hazy right now. I'm really looking forward to some tapes of the even being available.

I especially enjoyed fighting Shane Smith (that boy has reach!), Ernie Perez, the New York gang, and getting the chance in general to square off against all these guys whose words I've only read.

And though it wasn't during the prizing, I can't wait to rematch with Tim Sheetz. Too much fun.

Jake

[Casper Bradak]

I had a great time in the bouts. The intensity was superb. It's hard not to be intense when you're fencing against one who is.
There's always room for critique of a student, but the numbers speak for themselves.
I used sword and buckler during the waster play due to a hand injury, but Jake, Tim and John showed me it's not an advantage against a skilled opponent. Tim used the spring to maximum effect, and the only reason I beat him in a bout is he overextended and slipped when I voided.
Jake hammered me, and John just plain out finessed me in earlier sparring.
I can't think of many suggestions. Perhaps an actual fenced in area for the bouts, as in the fencing manuals. A more organized line.
Thanks for the opportunity to help test you guys!

[John_Clements]

The line was a funny thing, the ideal originally was to have the Prizer go against each person armed with a longsword only twice, then other bouts against select seniors with wasters and steel and other weapons. We only had about 15 peole line up at start with longswords for the first event with Tim. But by time it was about half over there were like 25 people in line with different weapons, as everyone seeing the fun got in line. When Jake had his time, seemed everyone wanted in on it and the next thing there was like 35 people in line with every kind of weapon! It was pretty fuinny. So, we just limited it to one 2-hit bout per person, then those guys selected for using steel. It all worked out really well. We were just concerned about over taxing the Prizers with so many challengers lining up.

We did not even count the bouts I stepped into for the tally 'cause I didn't want to risk skewing the score but still wanted to get play some, so they actually each fought 2 more bouts than were recorded.

JC

[Shane Smith]

I have to admit to being absolutely astonished at the level of skill both Jake and Tim displayed.I don't think that anyone watching(much less those of us that crossed swords with these guys),could deny that both men have definitely reached the next level.I have never been so proud to learn a lesson at the point of another mans sword in my life.Our new Senior Free-Scholars ARE that impressive <img src="/forum/images/icons/grin.gif" alt="" /> Tim and Jake definitely give us all standard to strive for and the bar has been set high by these two warriors indeed...Well done!

[Guest]

I really enjoyed it, and saw alot of great stuff. I liked the area, and John's preface about the prize playings of days gone past really set the mood.

I heard some talk of having a planned "warm up" for those who aren't testing- ie, some room for a few people to go at it on the sidelines to warm up a bit, if they wish. I'm not compleately sure what I think of this, but I think I personally. would have been a tad more ready had this been the case.I don't know if we want that, or what. I bet it would cause for a lower % to be expected won.

In a way my favorite bouts where the 4 out of 4 times I got killed, as I was surprised with the speed, distance, and timing shown by both Tim and Jake, and their skill was much better experienced than wintessed. (It was surprising because I have very often sparred with Jake, and after talking with him a bit, it seems he was fighting in "survival mode" rather than in "learning mode" which I was more accustomed to.)

Who was it that had the large sheild? The Utah guys (me included) fought with bucklers, but I really enjoyed watching the larger sheild at work, as it weilded very well, and I have practically no experience with it.

I look forward to the next time I get to participate in a prize playing. I know someone else in the provo group is eyeing SFS, and it's a shame I won't be there to fight with him. <img src="/forum/images/icons/smile.gif" alt="" />

[Guest]

Like everyone else, I enjoyed the bouting and was very impressed with the prowess displayed by both Tim and Jacob. In the waster bouts I went against both with a large heater shield. Generally, I can take out most longsword fighters no problem with sword and shield. Tim and Jake were well prepared however and it was very challenging. Jake in particular took advantage of the reach of his weapon and the vulnerability of my forward leg to best me twice and very quickly. This proved two things to me:

1. As we have always said, there is no best weapon or style, the best fighter will win.

2. The training these guys have done really did make them superior to many of us. While most of us attacked tenatively at best, Tim and Jake both moved form cut to cut and ward to ward, putting together combinations of attacks, often suceeding only after the third or fourth cut. I was really proud of both of them.

[TimSheetz]

I had an absolute blast!

It was not without some trepidation that I approached the prize playing. I had very little chance for sparring the two years I have been in Korea.

The best part for me was facing off against opponents but after fighting I felt closer to the ARMA community . Being intense was the accepted standard so you could have earnest bouts and maintain a feeling of comaraderie and humor. Very awesome and I think it is a great indicator of the caliber of individuals in the organization.

I have the video of my bouts and I've been watching it every couple days and noting pros and cons and such. I may send folks an email offering my thoughts on their fight with me.. I have a boatload of criticism of my own!

The day prior, I really had a great sparring session with Jake - that was awesome. "We must do this again sometime."

I'll watch my video and give you my critique on couple things tomorrow.

Peace,

Tim Sheetz

[E. Perez]

First of all I would like to say congratulations again to Tim and Jake on attaining the rank of Senior Free Scholar. Their ability to adjust to whatever weapon combination that came before them is a testimony to their skill. Well done gentlemen, it was an honor to step into the ring with you both!

Mike, I have to agree, John's intro really set the stage. It was a privilege to be able to participate in such an august event, as well as a great opportunity to learn.

I fought with sword and a round shield (Thanks to Gary G.) against both Tim and Jake. I have been working on protecting that left leg during our last practice sessions. The knot on my leg has finally gone down. I would strongly recommend to any Scholar who has the opportunity to participate in any future prize playings to do so.

One of my favorite moments in regard to the prize playing happend at the mass combat later that evening. Tim and I were standing next to each other in the circle, waiting to fight whomever was in the middle. Tim turned to me with a crazed grin on his face and said "I'm going to cut in line so I can get to fight quicker. I haven't had enough sparring today."

[John_Clements]

Interesting you should remark on "survival mode" rather than in "learning mode", Mike, becuase one of the things I feel strongly about in our Prize testing is that becuase it's not a "tournament" and someone trying to "win" by "scoring hits" against a stranger trying to do the same before "judges", it changes the dynamic. There is no pretense and no competitive ego at work. Instead, the Prizer knows he is going to have to prove himself before his peers and colleagues and teachers. That is a very different kind of pressure I think, and though it was adversarial and every opponent was willing and obligated to fight hard against them, we all knew our objective was trying to make him show his best and display his finest, as opposed to "winning" by "beating" someone in a game. The psychology at work with the formality and intensity of the event is subtle but very profound and what it brings out in the Prizer is fascinating, and I feel very effective. I think it might explain something of why the historical fighting guilds and schools used this activity as a tool as opposed to just holding sporting contests or in-class free-play. Make sense?

JC

[TimSheetz]

Speaking of the video of my prize playing....

I need to send a copy to an ARMA member for digitizing so it can be used on the web site.. any volunteers?

Jake, "my brutha", I'll send your copy out tomorrow.

PM or email me your address, please.

My home internet connection is not yet operational so I have't ben able to get to the members E_list since I've returned to Asia.

Thanks!

Tim Sheetz

[Bart Walczak]

Hi all,

I've had a pleasure fighting with Tim with wasters, and then padded with Jake and with one of them with sword and buckler.

There was a lot of skill and prowess displayed in sparring, and I liked it a lot. In the end, this is where application of what you've learned so far comes in. Obviously, I need to learn still <img src="/forum/images/icons/laugh.gif" alt="" />

The main things to practice are traversing (a lot of fights seemed to end up "linear"), and entering the distance. I've noticed understandable reluctance to "go in". As Mark Larson said, what distinguishes a warrior is his willingness to close with the opponent.

Practice, practice, practice.

Good job!

[Guest]

In reading my own post, I realized I may have given the wrong impression. I certainly didn't mean to suggest that the prize players weren't challenged by the opponents they faced or that they easily beat them. In fact, many of the opponents fought very well and really gave Tim and Jake a run for their money. The fact that Jake and Tim still won over 70% of the time, even against some pretty skilled opponents, means that they really earned their prize and demonstrates the efficacy of the ARMA method, IMO.

[John_Clements]

Reluctance to go in??? Can't say I agree on that Bart. Only limited grappling was permitted in the Prizing, remember, yet there were some really splendid closures and even throws as I mentioned above in my first post --and some really big guys to fend off. I was there through all of it directing, so maybe you missed some. Besides, it's not all that easy to close with someone poised to slam you with one of these padded contact weapons or who's aiming a waster or steel blade at you and all you have on his a mask.