Receiving Strikes on Flat questions

[Robert Harden]

Someone on this video keeps saying that Receiving Strikes on Flat will break the blade and making some some comments against Mr.Clements. Can someone please go through the comments by Collin Clary and see if there's truth behind them?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TtNZQBc4RpE

[Kevin Reicks]

Someone on this video keeps saying that Receiving Strikes on Flat will break the blade and making some some comments against Mr.Clements. Can someone please go through the comments by Collin Clary and see if there's truth behind them?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TtNZQBc4RpE

There is always some danger in a blade taking damage in any kind of blow. However, no. Mr. Collins is grossly exagerating. I can see a very poorly made sword doing that or if put in a very bad, static, position in a vice it could take a bend, but human hands and arms have yield.

[Kevin Reicks]

Oh, and the whole how to ward and perry debate is discussed at length in this forum

Long of the short of it, is John Clements and those of us at ARMA beleive we can use both, edge and flat to ward. They do say use edge to ward, particularly with the later methods that use mostly stabbing in civilian self defense. It is a straw man argument that we denigh or do not practice this, we just don't believe in needless edge on edge perrying at all or edge on flat only wards in cutting actions.

Here is a very detailed article explaining our position

http://www.thearma.org/essays/edgemyth.htm

[Robert Harden]

Oh, and the whole how to ward and perry debate is discussed at length in this forum

Long of the short of it, is John Clements and those of us at ARMA beleive we can use both, edge and flat to ward. They do say use edge to ward, particularly with the later methods that use mostly stabbing in civilian self defense. It is a straw man argument that we denigh or do not practice this, we just don't believe in needless edge on edge perrying at all or edge on flat only wards in cutting actions.

Here is a very detailed article explaining our position

http://www.thearma.org/essays/edgemyth.htm

Thank you.

[Stacy Clifford]

ARMA has been teaching parries/deflections as edge-against-flat and flat-against-edge since we began, and I have NEVER seen or heard of anyone breaking a steel blade by doing it this way since I started in 2000. Even wasters rarely break from such use. Aside from very thick rapier blades, any flat blade decently well made has a springy character to it in that dimension that will absorb and rebound from a strike with usually minimal effects (and as stated above, human hands have some give to them as well). This is especially true if you receive the blow on the lower, strong portion of the blade as nearly all historical sources instruct. Even in sources such as Di Grassi that say "encounter the blow with your edge", I've found that when you apply proper footwork, distance and timing, you still end up with your edge against the opposing flat even when that's not what you're specifically aiming for. Flat parrying is easy to do, it's reliable, and it consistently improves economy of motion. The alternative is this:

http://www.thearma.org/Videos/EdgeBashing1.htm

Just for clarification, when we say "edge on edge," we are referring to two edges meeting at nearly perpendicular ~90 degree angles. This is what causes the kind of damage seen in the video above. If the edges meet at a highly oblique angle (30 degrees or less, for instance), then the forces are different and the edges are not going to dig into each other. None of us expects every single parry to be a perfect edge-against-flat (which is nearly impossible), just that the opposing forces are predominantly aligned in that direction. Some people will still insist on calling that "edge on edge", but they are going by the letter of the law, not the spirit of it as we intend.

[Robert Harden]

Any truth behind this video?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=izHUP-69V_I

[Kevin Reicks]

Any truth behind this video?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=izHUP-69V_I

ARGH! Not Skall! T_T He has a lot of videos I enjoy, the goofy knife ones are great. I posted this in the youtube comments

"I am an ARMA member and a fan of yours. I remember complimenting you on your first vid, but I am disappointed with your conclusions in this one. First, there can be a little edge on edge contact depending on the angle and still be considered the flat. We also certainly DO use edge on flat. If you look at our krumphau video, the krump on a stab from ox starts the same way with edge on flat (how It ends is a different debate for another day). The same is done with other techniques, but John has been trying to make the point about the flat can be used. With the middle flat vs. middle edge, we are aware of what you are showing, but we use the flat closer to the guard (strong or forte) against the opposing part near the point (weak or foible). Trying to push the sword away in that situation might be more difficult then you think and it might be easier to counter it then you think. There is a bunch of other stuff I could nit pick over that goes with our interpretations, but I don't think this is the place. I am responding like this because I like a lot of your videos and I was very excited and happy to see you talk to John Fitzen. You are also very polite in discussing your view on things in what I said on your other flat video is a very contentious topic with a lot of angry emotion. If you are ever in the area of ARMA members be it in the States or parts of Europe, we can talk and engage in friendly free play. We aren't so closed off as too many think. You might be surprised. "

He is definitely getting some things wrong here and not seeing some of the hows, whys, and the subtle things that make our interpretations work. Despite this and some differences of spiritual faith, I think he is a good guy and I hope he changes his mind.