Henry de Saint Didier and Weapon Seizures

[Dave Housteau]

Most of us take it for granted that many, if not most civilian pure thrusting and cutting & thrusting weapons can be firmly grasped by the blade and taken from ones opponent when done properly. This is often routinely demonstrated when sparring and in various seminars and workshops, both within and outside of ARMA. Yet, when we look at the illustrated historical record, one usually sees grasping only of the forte, hilt and weapon arm of the opponent.

I would expect to see this illustrated within the rapier texts at least, but I am not familiar with any of them if they do exist. However, where I do see blade grasping illustrated clearly without any mistake is within Saint Didier’s manuscript of 1573. (illustrations 101 - 104, 107 - 112)

The sword shown is unmistakably a weapon designed for both the cut and thrust, a sidesword. The interesting thing to me is that the area of the blade illustrated for the seizure is the last third of the blade, it’s sharpest and most deadly section and the hand looks to be unprotected.

Why is it I wonder that the rapier text authors choose not to illustrate blade seizures on a weapon that would be easier to do it with. Is it a technique that may have just been assumed? Even so, for an action that is so often easily displayed by WMA students, one would think it would have been worth illustrating more by the in period Masters.

Dave

[Guest]

Dave,

Yes, Didier does show that.

With rapiers, I think it's a matter of rather than trying to grab a real rapier ---not a modern flexi practice weapon with a big rubber tip on it --near its point is quite hazardous. Better, to try to pass by the point and close in first before grabbing.

Besides, 15th century cutting swords were far sharped with keener edge bevels than any rapiers yet those blades were grasped all the time.

But, several sources do refer to using gloves for garrbing slender baldes. For example, Saviolo in his discussion of the first ward: “I will tell you this weapon must be used with a glove, and if a man should be without a glove, it were better to hazard a little hurt of the hand, thereby to become master of his enemies sword, then to break with the sword and so give his enemy the advantage of him. Moreover, having the use of your left hand, and wearing a gantlet or glove of mail, your enemy shall no sooner make a thrust, by thou shall be ready to catch his sword fast and so command him at your pleasure: wherefore I wish you not to defend any thrust with the sword, because in so doing you loose the point.”

JC

[Guest]

John - What a great quote to illustrate the importance of allowing hand to blade contact in sparring. He doesn't just "allow" it, but he seems to encourage it above displacing with the sword! Though it's speaking of rapier (which I haven't been training in), it still makes me want to experiment with fighting with some armor on my left hand.

That's a quote that I'm saving.