Messer Play

[Guest]

Since getting an excellent introduction to the langen messer at the ARMA International International Event (thanks again Hans and Alex) I have wanted to start doing some messer training. I made a couple of wasters and Shane Smith and I have been playing around with them. We have tried to keep in mind the principles and techniques Hans and Alex showed us as well as what we have seen in Lecküchner,Talhoffer, and Codex Wallerstein. We felt a little awkward at first but eventually were able to get into the groove a bit and pull off some pretty close aproximations of the type of techniques we see in the manuals. Most of the guards and techniques of German longsword seem quite applicable as well albeit tailored to a shorter weapon. Has anyone else been doing messer play? How is it going? Have you been incorporating grappling? Also, does anyone else find it amazing that Lecküchner's book has over 200 pages of messer material. I mean that's way bigger than most fechtbuchs that cover several weapons.

[Casper Bradak]

Yeah, I've done a bit of messer from the start, but the class at the international event really got me going on it.
It's going very well. I never exclude grappling, unless I'm working on something specific with someone. I wouldn't exactly call anything without grappling free play.
It would sure be great if there were a manual such as Lekuchners for every weapon!

[Joachim Nilsson]

Yes, quite amazing. Seems he had a lot to say about that magnificent weapon. Does anybody know if there is any work being done when it comes to transcribing and/or translating the Leküchner material?

[Shane Smith]

Is anyone currently making a decently-accurate replica messer suitable for blunt use as well as a sharp for test-cutting purposes? All I'm seeing are falcions without the crossguard stud and based on what I'm experiencing in our training here locally,that little projection seems to make all the difference in the world. <img src="http://www.thearma.org/forum/images/icons/tongue.gif" alt="" />

[Casper Bradak]

From what I've seen the mrl "gross messer" is the closest. But it would be simple to rivet a nail through one of their other designs.

[Joachim Nilsson]

Cold Steel makes a grosse messer as well. But at 4 punds it seems a tad too heavy. Does anyone know if the MRL one is any good?

The lack of good "replica" messers/grosse messers is certainly frustrating. At least to me.

[Casper Bradak]

I've got one. It's lighter than the other one, but still heavier than equivalent originals from what I hear, and it performs best in 2 hands, though it's still very manageable in one. Like most mrl's it's made to be sharp.
I don't know why but they make the side plate slope down over the grip and it can't be handled properly unless you bend it until it's flat, but that's easy to do and you can't tell any different once you've done it. I'm pretty happy with it.