Sword Sharpening

[John Bentley]

I have just mailed my application for Associate Membership, and I am hoping to be accepted. Meanwhile, I have a question. I recently purchased a cut and thrust sword from Museum Replicas, and received it unsharpened. It is a beautiful reproduction, in my completely uneducated opinion, and I don't want to ruin it with an amateur sharpening attempt. Does anyone have recommendations for sharpening tools, services, etc., for sharpening the sword accurately? I have a "wall-hanger" junk rapier that I can practice on. The blade quality of the rapier appears good, but the hilt is atrocious, so it should be a good one to practice on. Any information would be appreciated.

[Shane Smith]

Welcome to the forum.
<img src="/forum/images/icons/smile.gif" alt="" />
I have had decent luck with a steady hand and a bastard file but you have to be in it for the long haul <img src="/forum/images/icons/wink.gif" alt="" />

[John Bentley]

Thanks for the reply. I'm new enough to any sort of sharpening endeavor that I have to ask...bastard file? What's that? Also, what bevel angle is recommended? How do you measure and maintain the appropriate angle? What about knife sharpeners? So many questions...

[Brian Hunt]

Hi John,

David Lindholm's book "Knightly Art of the Longsword" can be purchased from Paladin Press and it has a really good article on sword sharpening by Peter Johnsson in the back. I highly reccomend this book for this article alone, not to mention the wonderful interpretation of Ringecks longsword material. The bevel on the edge of a sword is going to be determined by the sword itself, it's cross section, etc. However the main bevel will be between 10-30 degrees and the actual cutting edge will be somewhere between 30-50 degrees depending upon the sword. You will need to start with a rough stone, or a file, or a piece of course emery paper attached to a wood block for your intial phase of establishing your edge. You can then move to a medium grit stone, etc. And then finaly to a fine stone, etc. You can then move onto a leather strop to finish the edge. It takes time and patience to sharpen a sword. What I have posted here are the bare basics. An edge is an interesting thing, it has a variety of purposes, from shaving with a razor, to cutting up vegetables, to chopping wood with an axe. Each cutting instrument will have a different edge to meet it's immediate task that it was designed for. The same holds true for swords. Different swords will also have a different edge depending upon their purpose. A sword designed for use against armour is going to have a different edge than say a sword designed for civilian self defense.

Good luck in your endevour. <img src="/forum/images/icons/smile.gif" alt="" />

Brian Hunt
GFS

[John Bentley]

Hello Brian,
I'm very patient, and I'm not averse to hard work in the performance of a worthy project. I really appreciate your advice, and I'm sort of looking forward to the project. I performed a book search and found the book you recommend, but at $50.00, it's a bit more than I want to spend when I'm only interested in a very small section of it. Because I'm mainly interested in Renaissance cut and thrust swords, I'm not sure how relevant the rest of the book would be for me. Does anyone have any references for the correct edge angles for the Renaissance cut and thrust type swords? I'm really determined to get this right! I'll try asking the Museum Limited folks and let you know.

[Ryan Ricks]

i've had a *quite* a lot of experience sharpening swords, especially mrl ones

here's what i do:

first, go to your local hardware store and get these items:

1. a relatively coarse metal file, preferrably mounted on a handle

2. honing oil, or lots of WD-40

3. a set of sharpening stones: coarse, medium, fine. you should get something either small that you can hold in one hand, or a large set which you can bolt or clamp down to a work bench.

4. (optional) if you're going to do this a lot, i recommend a japanese waterstone. this is a big, round rock that spins around (!!!slowly!!!) in a water bath. this will save you lots of effort.

then:

1. set the point of the sword into a block of wood on the floor, or stick it in the workbench (so you can hold it with one hand).

2. take the coarse file and observe the bevel of the blade (as the guy above says), then lay the file along the edge at the shallowest angle possible due to the shape of the sword.

3. slowly use the file to grind away the edge. i suggest you use a pushing motion.

4. !very important! count the number of times you move along each side of each edge. make sure you file each side of each edge the same amount.

5. continue this until the edge meets at a sharp point. hold the edge up to the light, and you should see no light reflecting back at you. if you do, this means you have flat places along your edge.

6. once satisfied, move to the coarse stone. be sure to liberally hose the stone down with honing oil/wd 40. this is very important. make sure it stays wet.

7. use the stone to grind away the edge. i recommend small circular motions. do this for 4 or 5 circles per unit of blade, moving slowly up and down the blade. again make sure you do this evenly along each side of each edge.

8. repeat using the medium and fine stones. continue to observe the edge under the light to check for flat reflective spots.

9. once satisfied, i like to test the edge by seeing how easily it will sever a bit of string. you can also gently feel the edge with the fleshy part of your thumb to see how it "bites" the more sharp it feels, the more sharp it is.

10. usually during this process you're going to scratch the blade up a bit. no worries, you can refinish them easily. get various grades of sandpaper, and a bucket of water. start with a relatively coarse piece of paper (not too coarse, of course!), wet it. rub the blade in a back and forth straight line from hilt to point. be sure to keep the paper wet. finally, move on to finer and finer sandpaper till you're satisfied. finally you can get an old sock and some metal polish. then go to town.

11. contgratulations! you have just removed the rust protective coating MRL puts on their swords. from now on, you must!!!! regularly hose it down with WD 40 or other oil, and FOR GOD SAKES, DON'T LET ANYONE PUT THEIR BARE FINGERS ON IT WITHOUT WIPING OFF THEIR PRINTS.

hope this helps. contact me if you have questions.

oh, and by the way, this will take a while, like everyone's said.

never, never, never use a fast moving power grinder. this will destroy the temper of your sword.

and dont' worry about the re-finishing and removing the protective coating. it'll be fine, you just have to be careful with it.

oh, and one more thing, perhaps you could try masking off the flat of the blade with masking tape to keep it from getting scratched. i've never tried this, but it could work in theory

ryan

[John Bentley]

Hello Ryan,
Thanks for the instructions. You sound like you know what you're talking about. I'll try it on the junk rapier first, until I get it right. By the way, where in the world would I get a Japanese water stone? MRL recommends removing the lacquer coating with lacquer thinner before sharpening, then reapplying 6 to 8 coats of clear lacquer afterwards. Ever tried it? I intend to use the sword for test cutting after sharpening, so would it be better to leave the lacquer off and just oil it frequently?

[Ryan Ricks]

well i'm an eagle scout, so i've learned at a ripe young age all about edge tool handling and sharpening.

as for japanese water stones, try looking up edgeworks, or doing a google search. they're gonna be pricey. you can also get a similar set up from the grizzley tool catalouge, although the stone quality is quite poor. while it works, it grinds down quickly, and you have to pad the tool rest to keep from scratching the flat of your blade.

personally i've never messed with laquer. i'd just recommend getting lots of WD-40. i test cut with mine. you just have to be sure to oil them afterwards. and dont' keep them stored in their scabbards. make sure to keep finger prints off it, and stuff like that.

ryan

[John Bentley]

Ryan,
Thanks again. I'll try to keep you posted on how this works out.

[John Bentley]

Ryan,
I just got a message back from MRL that the edge angle for my Pappenheimer is 36 to 38 degrees. Any ideas on how to measure and maintain that angle on the blade? Should I even worry about it at all, or just go for the flattest angle that the blade configuration allows as per your instructions?

[Randall Pleasant]

I recently purchased a cut and thrust sword from Museum Replicas, and received it unsharpened.

John

I know that the fun of a sword is often actually cutting something with it. Howver, you might also consider that you can get a lot more training out of the sword if it is left unsharpen, including some free-play with a training partner.

[Brian Hunt]

In order to maintain the angle for your edge, you can clamp your sword down to a board so that the edge of the sword is at the exact distance from the edge of the board to create the angle from the top corner of the board to the edge of your sword that you need to sharpen your sword to. Then by placing the stone on the top corner of the board and the edge of your sword at the same time, you can then shapen your blade to the correct angle (in your case 36-38 degrees, you can measure this with protractor). This can be a little rough on the edge of the board so maintain your pressure on the blade and just use the board as a guide. You can also use a straight piece of aluminum or steel instead of a wood board.

hope that helps.

Brian Hunt
GFS

[Ryan Ricks]

brian's idea sounds good. i've seen some sharpening rigs that allow you to clamp down the blade, and manually set the angle for how the stone engages it. doubtful that this will work for a sword though.

you can just get a protractor, observe the angle, and you should be able to maintain that by hand, with a little practice.

it just depends on what you want. if you want your edge to be super authentic, i'd definately recommend coming up with a method like brian's.

actually i'm sharpening my new sword at the moment. i got some kind of crazy carple-tunnel syndrome from holding the file, and now my hand's all tingly. so watch out for that.

[John Bentley]

you might also consider that you can get a lot more training out of the sword if it is left unsharpen, including some free-play with a training partner.

Good point Randall. I suppose my enthusiasm got the best of me. Upon sober reflection, it seems that it would be better to train with the sword unsharpened until I know how to use it properly. Really a bit obvious when you think about it. But at least now I know how to sharpen it when the time comes. Thanks for all the excellent advice, everyone.