Point-Only?

[Guest]

A couple of historical swordwork questions:
First: how far back does point-only swordwork go? I mean the use of a weapon that has no useful edge, where the thrust is the only practical attack.
Second, what would the weapon look like? Is it something like the simple cross-hilt-with-a-ring or later like the Italian cup-hilt?

[Casper Bradak]

If I remember correctly there's a certain variety of european bronze age swords designed for almost purely thrusting. The blade was riveted to the top of the hilt with little guard to speak of, and fairly short.
Other than that the earliest really exclusively thrusting swords that I know of are maybe estocs from the late medieval/renaissance period. They were built like longswords with narrow, sharply tapered blades with no real distal taper for a strong thrusting cross section.

[Guest]

I should have been more specific. Leaving out the bronze-age examples, and the two-handed estoc, what is the earliest renaissance weapon that eschewed the use of the edge? I recall from some pictures of Capo Ferro, and I can't recall any of those pictures using anything but the point. However, examples of swords of that period seem to have enough mass in the blade and were edged for the use of the cut.

Or have I got the wrong end of it here? Is the blade mass in the Cape Ferro style of early rapier just there to give authority to parries and to resist being parried, while the intent is to do damage exclusively with the point?

[Stuart McDermid]

Hi Darren,

If we are talking about a purely offensive use of the blade I would have to say the duelling epee as even with the epee, the edge is often used to oppose the other blade as you thrust.

I have read of smallsword masters who advise to use the edges of their triangular section weapon to strike blows in close quarters melee so I guess we pretty much have to discount the smallsword if we are speaking in absolute terms. If we are speaking of tendencies and recommendations, then we have sources from the early to mid 1500s telling us that the point is superior to the edge when used to offend
Cheers,
Stu.

[Arthur D Colver]

As a rough overview:
1500's begins the cut and thrust period, and while cut and thrust swords had fully functional edges, they fought point on and attacks more or less centered around thrusting. For military (battlefield)applications swords always had some type of edge even into the 1800's. Civilian swords moved more toward pure thrusting in the 1600's transitioning from cut-and-thrust, thru rapier to finally small sword in the 1700's. Most rapiers had some edge, although they were entirely centered around thrusting and could only really execute harrassing cuts. Small swords had little or no edge.

so to try and answer your questions...
How far back does point-only sword work go?
Early Celtic bronze age swords were "point-only" weapons.
Greek weapons centered around a thrusting sword and spear.
Romans also used thrusting swords.
Vikings favored spears.
1400 half-sword techniques are focused on thrusting attacks as did estocs or tucks.
1500's cut-and-thrust fought "point-on".

The use of a weapon that has no useful edge?
Early Bronze age swords (celtic and early greek)
1400 estocs
late 1600's some rapier and small swords.

what would the weapons look like?
They are widely varying in hilt type everything from almost no-hilt to simple cross hilt to cup hilt to elaborate basket hilts.

all this is off the top of my head... you really get some books and do some reading.
hope this helps
Art