My parrying skills need help.

[Karen Rose]

I've only had the chance to actually spar recently. Up until now my imaginary opponent in the driveway has been the best I could do...he never hit back at speed.
I've learned the basic cuts and guards, but find that with no sparring experience under my belt my parrying skills are wimpy at best. I can seem to manage a few displacements and guards, but when pressed on defense I will inevitably be killed in short order.
I am trying to keep to the basics (as I know I will be killed even faster if I try to get into winden and binden).
I've devoured the all the reading I could do on this subject, but nothing is the same as getting some neuro-memory in place.
In brief, is there anything in the way of basics you'd recommend to keep a less experiened fighter focused and engaged without exposing those openings quite so easily.
(For example: I wouldn't be able to defend myself, or get back on the offense with an opponent using a quick zwerch.)
Any advice apprecited.
Karen

[Stacy Clifford]

To really get defense down you need drilling partners to practice attacks and defenses with. Visualization is helpful up to a point, but until somebody is actually swinging at you, you won't learn proper timing and distance in the same way you would learn it for offense by attacking a pell. Especially for defense, timing is everything. There was a thread on here in the last couple of months where we did some discussion of drilling methods I believe.

One thing that will help you out until you get more practice though is that if you don't know what else to do, reset yourself to pflug. It's the one guard that defends the greatest variety of attacks with the least amount of movement or rational thought, and it always brings your point back on line to a threatening position. If you're really pressed you may have to retreat to regain some distance. It's a simple thing to remember and a quick one to train yourself to do, and you'd be surprised how often it works. It doesn't solve everything, of course, or the other defenses wouldn't need to exist, but for beginner sparring it's a useful way to keep yourself in the fight a little longer until less instinctive concepts start to sink in.

[Ryan Ricks]

one thing you might try is just getting the heck out of the way (voiding). i think voiding is the most simple defense, although it does take practice

here are some usefull drills my partner and i have done.

1. your partner is armed. you are not. have him perform the 8 cuts at you slowly. find the most efficient way to dodge, usually a pass back, traverse sideways, or something. try dodging a specific announced attack for a while. then have him mix it up and come at you with a random attack.

2. next repeat the above, but you are now armed. this time though, keep your sword on guard. try this with the various 5 guards. this will show you which ones are most mobile. i find vom tag the easiest to run around in, becuase your arms and sword aren't in your way.

3. same as above, but this time try a timed counter cut as you are moving away. or you can just skip to this step i guess

ryan

[TimSheetz]

Ryan,

You reminded me of a technique I use when I have folks that need some assistance in developing their footwork for avoiding.

Similar to what you suggest, except I use a padded sparring sword.

The armed individual attacks the unarmed one. The unarmed one avoids being hit and/or tries to close. A "win" for the armed is obvious, but the unarmed individual wins if they manage to close and secure the wrist/hand/hilt/ricasso of the armed person... sort of acknowledging a successful closing action without continuing into ringen.

I have done this without head gear as the armed guy targets the waist and lower mainly... but head gear is always a good idea.

The goal is not to really hit the unarmed individual hard, but to be realistic in speed/intensity.

My experience is that with the proper motivation, explosive movements quickly develop as the flight or fight responses get incorporated into the training:-)

I also did this to erase the notion that is a cinema favorite - A combatant drops his sword.. now he is much harder to hit than when he carried it! Totally false. Try it an see.

I have actually made people in my class here do this. They didn't really want to but the alternative wasa to get hit. They saw that in fact this was some training "tough love" and did indeed get much better at judging ranges, avoiding, and closing in ONE DAY.

Peace,

Tim

[Roger Soucy]

Ryan, Tim,

That sounds like a great exercise. We'll have to use that here in SI. I'm curious though Tim, what do you find most people inclined to do when they do the exercise the first time? Backing off / traversing or closing? And then, after doing the exercise for a while, mixed with other training, does the opposite become more prevelent?

[David Craig]

I've only had the chance to actually spar recently. Up until now my imaginary opponent in the driveway has been the best I could do...he never hit back at speed.
I've learned the basic cuts and guards, but find that with no sparring experience under my belt my parrying skills are wimpy at best. I can seem to manage a few displacements and guards, but when pressed on defense I will inevitably be killed in short order.
I am trying to keep to the basics (as I know I will be killed even faster if I try to get into winden and binden).
I've devoured the all the reading I could do on this subject, but nothing is the same as getting some neuro-memory in place.
In brief, is there anything in the way of basics you'd recommend to keep a less experiened fighter focused and engaged without exposing those openings quite so easily.
(For example: I wouldn't be able to defend myself, or get back on the offense with an opponent using a quick zwerch.)
Any advice apprecited.
Karen

I read this and almost thought I had posted it myself <img src="/forum/images/icons/smile.gif" alt="" />. I have yet to have the chance to do any sparring, and have become increasingly aware that I have all offense and virtually no defense. I am getting together with a study group for the first time this weekend, so hopefully I'll begin remedying this deficiency. But any tips on ways to work on defensive skills in solo training would certainly be useful to me too, and probably to others.

David

[Olgierd Pado]

If you are soloing, you can always use a swinging pell - that's what I've been using for a couple of days now.
At least it may teach you voiding and basic countercuts (to some extent, of course).
Just swing it hard, and when it comes back at you - void and strike. It's more difficult than it may seem, good workout too.

Cheers
Olgierd

[Karen Rose]

Thanks for the feedback.
Olgierd, I do have a hanging pell and I believe it has helped quite a bit in keeping me moving and aiming all over the place.
Ryan and Tim, great ideas both. I love the idea of the unarmed person securing the wrist/hand etc of the armed. What a great footwork exercise!
Thanks Stacy for a good grounding point......a way to center myself when I find myself getting my brain scrambled.
Thanks everybody. <img src="/forum/images/icons/smile.gif" alt="" />

[Jay Vail]

Stacy: good post. Karen, as he says, a training partner ultimately becomes necessary. You can only go so far practicing to the air. You need practice partner drills to develop specific skills before you spar.

Tim: excellent drill. I'll have to try that one.

[TimSheetz]

Hi Roger,

Most people when they first start (with no weapon) are usually incline, rightfully so, to run away. After all moving tactically means you have to move to a position of advantage.

I often have to coach the attacker as well.. many are hesitant. I try to help them reach inside and get in touch with their inner viking. "Come on! You swam the moat, climbed the tor, lost 5 of your frineds to get into this town and now you are gonna let them get away!?" I then do a demo of how an aggressive attacker would attack with intent against an unarmed person. This would be when they (the unarmed one) usually tries to run away. The goal is to get beneficial training and any timidity on the sword wielders part is counterproductive.

A WORD ON SAFETY: The sword wielder always must be controlled and violence of action and intent can be done WITH CONTROL. They need control.

For the weaponless, a good tactic is to void (or run) until the swordsmans weapon is misplaced and then suddenly close. Casually swinging at the guy running from you can mean a poor swing recovery and you are suddenly closed upon and the fight is over.

As they get better the unarmed guy can get to be a better judge of range and timing, though they should expect a 10 to 1 loss to win ratio if they are both equal.

NOTE: I did this again after training intesively over a two year period and me and my fellow students masacred each other with ZERO successful closes. So, the better you get with the sword, the odds of being successfully closed on goes way down as the swordsman's command of footwork automatically corrects the range for the strike.

Peace,

[JeffGentry]

I'll relate this in a way that is diffrent. i rode bull's for six year's and we started on a bucking barrel, when you get good on it and learned the basic's you get on the real bull's. you suddenly notice your heart in your chest, mouth is dry, brain spinning. You know what to do, you have done this before or so you tell yourself.

You get in shoot pull the bull rope tight and call for the gate and suddenly your on the ground and have no clue what the heck just happened as time goes by you start to get to where you see everything that the bull does and remember everything you did right or wrong you feel the bull turn and the pressure on your leg telling you what to do and you don't think you just do it. and eventualy it is the most natural thing and it require's almost no thought on your part.

So Karen it is the same thing when you spar you. Once you know the basic's as you start to spar you think and that is not alway's a good thing( you have to think in a difffrent way). It just come's when you Practice and practice right and spar when ever you can just don't become discouraged stick to the basic's and eventualy it will be natural. Be aggresive but be discilined in your action's wait for the opening you want. voiding is basic use it. i'll get of my soap box now thank's for tolerating my ranting's. I justy think we must train our mind's for combat also. <img src="/forum/images/icons/grin.gif" alt="" />

[leam hall]

My suggestion echoes Stacy's. Practice your attacks and defenses with your imaginary friend, er, opponent. Practice the flow of attack, defend, counter and the footwork involved. The more you have that part into the sub-conscious the better. Then when you spar you'll be able to focus on timing.

From what I've seen the ability to counter is harder learned than timing.

[GaryGrzybek]

Ah yes, and the ability to use proper time and measure will allow you to counter with a higher degree of success. <img src="/forum/images/icons/wink.gif" alt="" />

[Andrey Lileyev]

2 Karen

Agree about the exercise discussed before. It is helpfull. But I'd mention that attacker must try to harm defencer a bit. The best learning result you will get when you're tired (you can either make this exercise for long time or run a kind of cross before) and when you know that getting the hit is a bit painfull. Some fear of beeng hited will not help you to learn how to close but it will help to train your feet.

And one more thing. Nobody can learn how to fight without real partners and a trainer. Take it as an axiom. Both are important. You need at least one person to teach you and some partners OF YOUR LEVEL. Practcising with same-level people under trainer direction is much more usefull than practicising with trainer. Somebody may forget it.