A discussion thought

[JeffGentry]

Hey Philippe

"Before displacing gaurd yourself. Place yourself for advantage"

if we remember this is from Lichtenauer and Ringeck is giving his comentary on the Lichtenauer "system", If we generalize this to fighting and not the system how do we then apply this?

I don't think it is so much a question of technique as it is tactic's and how we employ this in a tactical sense, whether it is absetzen, or twitching, it doesn't seem to matter in a tactical sense.

How do each of us do this, i try to do it in the pre-fencing looking at his gaurd and assuming mine in accordance with the four opening's and how i can negate his sword and still hit him, then if he close's the opening i am striking to were do i go next.

Or does this appear more as a defensive quote assuming we are in the nacht?


Jeff

[Aaron Pynenberg]

I also think it's an admonishment to strike in range, with proper intent before leaving the protection of your guard.

I like to try and visualize my opponent without even a weapon and strike, of course he/she does have a weapon, so that's where the technique and proper application of techniques saves you from being struck, if the opponent is able- so much of discussions about fighting really boil down to- "yes, that technique could work but, are you able, to do it against me, when I am doing this to you"

By the way, I really am enjoying "The swordsman's Companion" by Guy Windsor, I have concentrated on the German system thus far, and if you want a good intro to Italian Masters I think this is the one to get?--Aaron

[philippewillaume]

sorry jeff.
i totally misunderstood you.

Damn, I was quite proud of it, a pity its absolutely not reply to your question….

I think that particular statement applies to when we are in the nach (IE when we defend).
I would put a caveat to that in the way that dobringer, Ringeck, do not explain thing in therm of guard (in the modern sens but in term of strike. We do not care what guard our opponent is in it is never mentioned what we care about is the strike. i.e. an oberhaw, unterhaw from the left or from the right. The breaking of the guard is as much a warning to us than a way to break others people guard. Of course it is an indication to what to do when your opponent is in those guard or the like but the book is organized around your opponent strikes.

It is not that obvious in VD, lew, speyer but well we use Von tag (almost) all the time and your opponents does not seems to have a specific guard (unless particular point being made. So we could with some reserves put them in this categorie.

However Meyer explenation is more based on guard (in the modern sens). Since I do not know Meyer well enough so I am not sure it does not apply on the attacking his guard you mention as well.

If I remenber well Meyer does not have the speech on don’t bother to much about what your oppoenent is doing just do your pieces and do not be chicken (or words to that effects) that you find in earlier author

[JeffGentry]

Philippe

Well the first one was a good reply i am just looking at the big picture, i know most use this statement even though they may not have seen it and do not know they are.

Sometime's i like to see how other people look at thing's, i see them talk about the four opening's in alot of the fechtbuch's and it seem's they are a very important part of fencing that alot don't realy use or understand how to use them, i am starting to more and more and it is helping(i hope)lol, I know i did not get it until i read Meyer and he broke the strike's down to if he is in this gaurd he can strike here and so if you close this opening with this gaurd you can strike this way, now when i read other fechtbuch's i try to look at it this way and work from there, i have been doing it alot in sparring and i think it has made a diffrence in how i fight.

Jeff

[philippewillaume]

i sure can not blame you for that ... <img src="/forum/images/icons/wink.gif" alt="" />