maximum sword length for sword and shield?

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Jon Pellett
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Re: maximum sword length for sword and shield?

Postby Jon Pellett » Tue Dec 13, 2005 9:44 am

Since we don't have any texts on the actual system used with large shields other than german dualing shields...
Hey, what about the Italian rotella stuff (Marozzo, Manciolino, Agrippa, DiGrassi, Capo Ferro, etc)? There's also Page's broadsword and targe, and supposedly lots of stuff in Monte.

Cheers

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Brian Hunt
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Re: maximum sword length for sword and shield?

Postby Brian Hunt » Thu Dec 15, 2005 2:48 am

Hi Jon,

good question about the Italian rotella, because of the number of masters you named, I will need a few days to give you a decent answer. I prefer to go to the manuals when a question such as yours arises for evidence of my point of view, instead of just shooting from the hip.

laters. <img src="/forum/images/icons/smile.gif" alt="" />

Brian Hunt
GFS
Tuus matar hamsterius est, et tuus pater buca sabucorum fundor!

http://www.paulushectormair.com
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Jon Pellett
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Location: Calgary, AB

Re: maximum sword length for sword and shield?

Postby Jon Pellett » Thu Dec 15, 2005 4:32 am

Hi Brian

So far as I know none of these sources use longsword and shield, I just wanted to throw them out there for the OP's benefit. <img src="/forum/images/icons/smile.gif" alt="" /> Though Marozzo does have rotella and partisan, which is pretty cool, and Capo Ferro shows rotella with a bloody long rapier. I've seen pictures of longsword and buckler, but I'm not sure about longsword and shield.

Cheers

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Brian Hunt
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Re: maximum sword length for sword and shield?

Postby Brian Hunt » Thu Dec 15, 2005 8:52 am

Hi John,

yeah I have looked at Marrozo's rotella and partisan, IMHO it would be similar to what was probably done with a shield and a spear, but a rotella is handled differently than a viking or anglo saxon center held shield, or a kite shield. Still the rotella sources and the german duelling shields are the closest things we have to a written shield system. So we are left with extrapolation from iconic evidence, german duelling shields, the Italian rotella, and various buckler systems to try and create a system for ancient shield work. And when we are done, we cannot say for sure that this is how they were used, it will be a modern reconstruction rather than a true interpretation of a system, all we could really say is that this reconstruction works well and we have some evidence to support it, but we won't know for sure unless an ancient document comes forth to support or disprove our reconstruction.

To me, the two rotella plates in Capo Ferro almost appear as an after thought. He presents one guard that can be used with either leg forward, doesn't really give us a system, he doesn't appear to use the rotella for the giant knuckle duster it is (probably due to the 4 foot rapiers he is using and the difference in speed of the rotella vs. the speed you can cavazione with the rapier). It is almost as if he wrote down a few tricks or techniques figuring it would trigger a trained fighters memory and left it at that (this is of course my opinion.).

I too have seen icongraphic evidence for longsword and buckler, but no manuals. I think it would be a little more unweildy and harder to cross and uncross your opponents sword as is done in the I33, and some of the binds of Ringecks sword and buckler.

As stated, I will give you a more detailed answer later. <img src="/forum/images/icons/wink.gif" alt="" />

Brian Hunt
GFS
Tuus matar hamsterius est, et tuus pater buca sabucorum fundor!



http://www.paulushectormair.com

http://www.emerytelcom.net/users/blhunt/sales.htm


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