Padded swords to be tested

For Historical European Fighting Arts, Weaponry, & Armor

Moderators: Webmaster, Stacy Clifford

User avatar
GaryGrzybek
Posts: 395
Joined: Fri Sep 20, 2002 9:30 am
Location: Stillwater, New Jersey
Contact:

Re: Padded swords to be tested

Postby GaryGrzybek » Tue Jun 01, 2004 5:04 pm

Yea Tim, we did have some heavy hitters up there. I think they were the right tools for the ocassion. I just prefer something I can manipulate a little more. We were trying some feints the other day and it was quite difficult with these monsters. I agree about the wood slat swords in that they just don't survive long enough. I think a fiberglass or composite core will do wonders if we can find them cheap enough.
Gary

G.F.S.
ARMA Northern N.J.
Albion Armorers Collectors Guild

david welch
Posts: 453
Joined: Wed Dec 18, 2002 5:04 am
Location: Knoxville TN

Re: Padded swords to be tested

Postby david welch » Wed Jun 02, 2004 12:35 pm

OK, here is a little more info. Once I get my pc back in order (my camera quit working) I will be able to give complete instructions with pictures.

We are using 3/4 white pvc from home despot. Measure out how long your total length will be and cut. Measure your hilt to past the guard and mark.

Wearing heavy gloves like welding gloves, heat the pvc in short sections. You can use a heat gun, and maybe a propane torch. We are using a propane grill under a wire frame covered in aluminum foil, with a hole in both ends as a "pvc forge".

Mash the short heated sections of the blade to a flat oval with a rag or a wooden block. Once you get the shape you want, cool it with water and then heat the next section. Heat and shape the hilt to suit.

measure out the guard. We are using 11" right now. Find the center, heat, and drift a hole in it to fit over the hilt. Mash flat around hilt. Once it is cooled, knock it out of position and paint the hilt where the guard goes either pvc cement of epoxy, and knock guard back into place. Let dry. If you do a good job, it will be pretty strong. My wife Donna can stand on one of ours.

That makes one of our new cores. ( The guard is new from the one we gave Jake. <img src="/forum/images/icons/smile.gif" alt="" /> )

The rest is made about the same as "ARMA Generation 2.2" at:
http://www.anomaly.org/wade/paddedsword/index.html

Except we are using 3/4 flat 1/8 thick steel cut 10" and 6" on both sides of the hilt and strong to balance and weight. We are using a steel pipe cap and lead 50 cal shot for the pommel.

Weight and glue on the pommel and the blade padding, but leave about 1/3 of the padding on the strong unglued. Adjust the weights until it balances the way you like and then secure them with tape, epoxy, etc.. and finish glueing your padding.

For padding, we are using garden kneeling pads from home despot. There are 3 kinds, one with a rigid kind of foam, one with a high density foam covered in dip that are exactly the same material as TKD kicks and boxing heat gear. Use this kind if you can find it. The third kind is soft, mushy, and what I have seen, white. This last kind is unsuitable and dangerous, so don't use it.

I'll try to have more latter. Remember, for us these are prototypes, and the padding will be with the Landau padding when we are finally happy with them.

More latter...
"A sword never kills anybody; it is a tool in the killer's hand." Lucius Annaeus Seneca 4BC-65AD.

david welch
Posts: 453
Joined: Wed Dec 18, 2002 5:04 am
Location: Knoxville TN

Re: Padded swords to be tested

Postby david welch » Wed Jun 02, 2004 1:09 pm

A couple of quick testing pics...


Comparison with model
Image


Testing with a 50 lb. weight
Side
Image


Edge
Image

More soon.
"A sword never kills anybody; it is a tool in the killer's hand." Lucius Annaeus Seneca 4BC-65AD.

User avatar
Jake_Norwood
Posts: 913
Joined: Thu Sep 19, 2002 11:46 am
Location: Clarksville, TN

Re: Padded swords to be tested

Postby Jake_Norwood » Wed Jun 02, 2004 1:52 pm

Well, at the risk of making the natives even more restless, we sparred for about an hour with these "new" ones, and it rocked. The padding got torn up some, but nothing too bad. The cores worked great. They hit harder than the wooden slat ones usually do, but not much. I took several hard hits to the hand and most of it still works <img src="/forum/images/icons/smile.gif" alt="" />

I'd also note that (and many of you can attest this) my guys and I hit *hard,* and nobody went home damaged, although there was just enough "ouch" to keep you from wanting to get hit.

Jake
Sen. Free Scholar
ARMA Deputy Director

User avatar
Brian Hunt
Posts: 969
Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2003 2:03 am
Location: Price, Utah
Contact:

Re: Padded swords to be tested

Postby Brian Hunt » Wed Jun 02, 2004 5:49 pm

Cool,

Thanks for the update and the howto.

Appreciate it, I will have to make some this weekend.

Brian Hunt.
GFS
Tuus matar hamsterius est, et tuus pater buca sabucorum fundor!

http://www.paulushectormair.com
http://www.emerytelcom.net/users/blhunt/sales.htm

User avatar
Bill Welch
Posts: 144
Joined: Fri Jun 04, 2004 8:39 am
Location: Knoxville, TN

Re: Padded swords to be tested

Postby Bill Welch » Fri Jun 04, 2004 9:05 am

Hey Guys, I am a perfectionist when it comes to how I want things done if my name is to be associated with it. That being said David jumped the gun a little and missed a few facts on the proccess on how I have been making the Practice swords.
I have found gorilla glue, which seems to be what I wanted to glue the steel inside the core, because it expands to fit ,had tried "great Foam" but didnt hold as well as I had hoped, also have been using 24 inches of 3/4" X 1/8" steel for the core. once its all together it come out about 2lbs, 10 to 15 ounces depending. also the BIG thing that I have determined and it seems logical, but make sure your core is complete before you balance it with the steel. But haveing said very little I am in the proccess of putting it all down on paper and getting it on the net. and depending on time which I have very little spare, I am planning on having several practice swords made for jakes presentation in knoxville. I will be more than happey to answer Questions on the process if anyone has specific ones.

thanks Bill
Thanks, Bill
You have got to love the violence inherent in the system.
Your mother is a hamster and your father smell of Elderberries.

david welch
Posts: 453
Joined: Wed Dec 18, 2002 5:04 am
Location: Knoxville TN

Re: Padded swords to be tested

Postby david welch » Fri Jun 04, 2004 12:50 pm

David jumped the gun a little and missed a few facts on the process on how I have been making the Practice swords.


Only because 15 min after Bill makes one he says he figured out how to improve it. <img src="/forum/images/icons/smile.gif" alt="" />

I just got to play with Bill's new version.

The weight has been placed in the handle. The balance is 4 1/2" from the guard. The point of percussion is 13" from the tip. The guard is 11" across.

This design is intended to hurt like crap when you get hit, but to not leave you injured. When you spar, you are definitely trying not to get hit.
Image

"I am Bill and I approve of this message." <img src="/forum/images/icons/grin.gif" alt="" />
"A sword never kills anybody; it is a tool in the killer's hand." Lucius Annaeus Seneca 4BC-65AD.

User avatar
Shane Smith
Posts: 1159
Joined: Thu Sep 19, 2002 2:15 pm
Location: Virginia Beach

Re: Padded swords to be tested

Postby Shane Smith » Tue Jun 29, 2004 3:07 pm

Hi Matt,
Please re-register with your real name in accordance with the forum rules.

For my personal impressions on the weapons Bill is making,read my reply in the review thread on the Knoxville event. Welcome to the forum. <img src="/forum/images/icons/smile.gif" alt="" />
Shane Smith~ARMA Forum Moderator
ARMA~VAB
Free Scholar

User avatar
Matt Haupt
Posts: 11
Joined: Tue Jun 29, 2004 4:07 pm
Location: California, East Bay

Re: Padded swords to be tested

Postby Matt Haupt » Tue Jun 29, 2004 4:22 pm

Nevermind, I just used another email account.

I'm thinking that the Welch padded sword is superior simply because it has a serious quillon/guard. On the 2.2 sword, isn't the guard pretty floppy?
I'm solemnly swear I'm up to no good.

~Matt Haupt

User avatar
Brian Hunt
Posts: 969
Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2003 2:03 am
Location: Price, Utah
Contact:

Re: Padded swords to be tested

Postby Brian Hunt » Tue Jun 29, 2004 11:29 pm

Hi Matt,

having just built a few of these types of swords with a flattened PVC core similar to the ones discussed here, I can say that I really like the way they handle. Being able to balance them with steel inside the core is a real bonus, not to mention having a cross that can actually do a kron. In fact they handle so well that Stewart Feil has started building his own set for the Provo group.

Hope that helps.

Brian Hunt
GFS
Tuus matar hamsterius est, et tuus pater buca sabucorum fundor!



http://www.paulushectormair.com

http://www.emerytelcom.net/users/blhunt/sales.htm

User avatar
JeanryChandler
Posts: 978
Joined: Sat Dec 28, 2002 1:45 am
Location: New Orleans, aka northern Costa Rica
Contact:

Padded Wasters

Postby JeanryChandler » Wed Jun 30, 2004 12:04 am

I'm sure the new way they are making them in Knocksville is great, and I don't mean to be repetetive or beat a dead horse, but the way we do them here in New Orleans seems to work perfectly. Our weapons do not break, even against unpadded shield rims, steel bucklers, flexirapriers and steel helmets (and ask Jake, I hit damn hard myself). They have superior blade cross section to any padded weapon I've seen, I can make them any wieght from under 2 pounds to 4 pounds or more, they are not whippy, and they are perfectly balanced.

The weapons shown here are all made with Sch 80 1/2" pvc cores, with the high density 1/8" foam for the blade flats.

Image

The longer sword on the far right (top) has been in heavy use since Southern Knights, including against steel helmets, riveted armor, rattan sticks and steel flexirapirers. Other than a few minor rips to duct tape, and some wrinkles from UV, as you can see it's still in great shape.

Here you can see a closeup of the cross-section

http://bellsouthpwp.net/d/e/deodand23/Pwsword-side.jpg

and the top

http://bellsouthpwp.net/d/e/deodand23/Pwsword-top.jpg

DB
"We can't all be saints"
John Dillinger

User avatar
Jake_Norwood
Posts: 913
Joined: Thu Sep 19, 2002 11:46 am
Location: Clarksville, TN

Re: Padded Wasters

Postby Jake_Norwood » Wed Jun 30, 2004 1:57 pm

Jeanry's sparrers are pretty nice. I've got a messer he made me that I'm still happy with, even after much use. The stiff foam seems to hold up very well.

Having sparred extensively with the Welch design, I'd say that both theirs and Jeanry's are pretty close to one another. Here's the major comparison points:

Jeanry's tips and foam seem to last longer, but the Welch design has a significantly more sword-like flex along the flat without giving any on the edge.

I would happily spar with either any day, and I think the two designs could learn from each other.

Jake
Sen. Free Scholar

ARMA Deputy Director

User avatar
Matt Haupt
Posts: 11
Joined: Tue Jun 29, 2004 4:07 pm
Location: California, East Bay

Re: Padded Wasters

Postby Matt Haupt » Wed Jun 30, 2004 4:30 pm

Hey Jake! Glad to see you're still doing ARMA out in Tennessee.

So Jeanry, how does the construction of your wasters differ from the ARMA or Knoxville wasters?
I'm solemnly swear I'm up to no good.



~Matt Haupt


Return to “Research and Training Discussion”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 18 guests

cron

 
 

Note: ARMA - The Association for Renaissance Martial Arts and the ARMA logo are federally registered trademarks, copyright 2001. All rights reserved. No use of the ARMA name or emblem is permitted without authorization. Reproduction of material from this site without written permission of the authors is strictly prohibited. HACA and The Historical Armed Combat Association copyright 1999 by John Clements. All rights reserved. Contents of this site 1999 by ARMA.