the thrust in Longsword combat

[Randall Pleasant]

Joe

First, it seems clear that you are noticing that something is about to happen before the blow is thrown at you. If you are an ARMA member I would highly suggest going into the members area and reading what John Clements has to say about Indes in his newest article on Master Johannes Liechtenauer.

Second, try countering Jeff's Zwerchhau with a Zwerchhau that cut under his blade so that your edge hits his arms and/or body and his edge hits your upper flat. You can also redirect a verticle cut onto his Zwerchhau so as to knock down his blade (ie. your true edge into his upper flat) after which you attack his next opening. Of course, Jeff, the lower you cut your Zwerchhau the harder it is for Joe to use those counters. <img src="/forum/images/icons/wink.gif" alt="" />

[David Craig]

Something I've been wondering about... When thrusting from Ox I see two basic types of thrust being available (considering only hand/arm position, not possible targets): 1) a thrust which carries thru to Long-point, where you change the position of hands/arms and end up with the short edge up. 2) a thrust where you keep your hands high in an ox-like position and simply push the point forward with the long edge remaining upward.

Thrusting thru to Long-point seems to be a necessity if you take a passing step (otherwise you cross your step), but with a gathering step you have the option of doing it either way depending on the circumstances.

Is this a sound analysis? And if so, is there any discussion of when to use these differing types of thrusts from Ox to be found in the manuals?

David Craig

[JeffGentry]

Randall
that is the great thing about it, it doesn't look like a zwerchhau and if you try to cut it and are not indes it will still get you and i follw very quickly with another cut from above you have to see to it, Jake is the one who showed us and i figured it out after seeing it and reading the Meyer text. I have realy gotten into the short edge use from Meyer i am no where near the level of Mr. Norwood but am ok, and the short edge strike's are very fast and deceiving since the can go high or low.

[JeffGentry]

David
When i thrust it is usualy from pflug, i seem to have better speed, in och's i think your analysis is write i go to longpoint from och's when i have thrust from there, unless it is done from a wind and is fairly close which would be your second example then it is a quick short hit to the neck shoulder something close to my point.

as far as something in the manuel's nothing specific jump's to my mind except thrusing from och's while winding and no specific person i just vaguely remember seeing something i need to read some stuff on winding again, have been a little preoccupied with Meyer longsword text( blame Jake he showed me the fancy short edge trick's and distrtacted me, and i'm easily distracted) <img src="/forum/images/icons/laugh.gif" alt="" />

[JeffGentry]

Hey Joe

here is the exact text from Meyer that i read and got my little movement from.

You send yourself into the Thwarter thus: assume the primary stance of Wrathful Guard to the right (as shown in the previous chapter), that is you put your left foot forward and hold your sword over your right shoulder, as if you would strike a wrathful strike, and when your opponent strikes you from the roof or above, strike closely with your short edge, breaking against his strike from below, holding your hilt high above to displace near your head, and strike to close by stepping full onto his Left side, thus displacing and closing against the other as shown by the left background figures of illustration H. This can be executed to the left thus striking his right side with a changed point, in that you will strike against his right by engaging with the long edge

[Joe Fults]

Will be a member.

May even be a member now. Just waiting to get word that the check is cashed and I'm good to go.