Rapier styles differences

[RaduRazvan]

Hello everyone! I am quite new at studying Renaissance martial arts; I am particulary interested in rapier fighting styles. In my searches for more in-depth knowledge i saw there are a few 'major' rapier schools (Italian, Spanish, German, English, French), each with its own theoretical foundation. It would be really helpful for me if someone could spare some time and briefly explain me what are the main differences betwen these rapier schools.

Thank you for your time and patience.

[Allen Johnson]

I feel that there really isnt much difference in the different schools (regions) just as long as you stick in the same general time period and make sure you are working with similar weapons. Since everyone borrowed from everyone else, and the term 'rapier' can be a generic and oft debated term there is lots of room in there. Your earlier cut and thrust blades like in Marrozzo will differ in technique from your later, more slender 'true rapiers' seen in Capo Ferro and the like. John Clements has a really good article on rapiers and covers tons of ground on all aspects of them. See here: http://www.thearma.org/spotlight.htm

[Brian Hunt]

I would add that there are mainly two schools of "rapier." Italian and Spanish. Meyer has a rapier section in his german manual, but it looks more like a cut and thrust sword than a "true" rapier. There is also a rapier manual that is written in english, but with the way my head hurts tonight, I cannot remember the author's name off the top of my head, but his is basicly an Italian style. Since the weapon dictates the way it is used in many ways, I feel that there is too much made about "styles." It is simply about fighting with a sharpened, 4-foot knitting needle.

hope this helps.

Brian Hunt.
GFS.

[Jon Pellett]

It does depend on what you mean by rapier; Meyer calls his weapon a rapier, but WMAists tend to call it 'sidesword'. The impression I get is that Meyer's stuff is based on the Italian, but thoroughly Germanized. Jake Norwood would probably know. Stefan Dieke at Freifechter focuses on that style. One source claimed that he was taught by Marozzo, though this is dubious.

There are several rapier manuals in English. There is the Elizabethan translation of DiGrassi, which is generally considered 'sidesword.' Saviolo is Italian or Spanish-Italian, depending who you ask. Swetnam is pretty distinctive, and probably qualifies as properly English. Pallas Armata I don't know enough about to say.

Spanish style involves holding your blade outstretched pointing straight at your opponent, stepping around in a circle, and doing tricksy stuff to him. It actually uses quite a lot of cutting as well as thrusting. Its theory is heavily based on abtruse geometry and philosophy. There is an article about it here.

Italian has a couple of different branches, IIRC. It's not my bag, but there is a Bolognese style and a... not-Bolognese style?

Anyway, good luck, it is a fascinating subject.

Cheers

[RaduRazvan]

Thanks a lot for your help, you clarified lots of issues for me. I downloaded some scanned manuals, mostly Italian, and I will read them to find out more. I wasn't able to find the "Academie De L'Espee" manual, by Girard Thibault, which i heard it is one of the best manuals on destreza (and it's also in French, so i can read it); i found two manuals by Ettenhard, though, on the subject of la 'verdadera destreza', but they are in Spanish, a language i don't speak.

[Jake_Norwood]

The impression I get is that Meyer's stuff is based on the Italian, but thoroughly Germanized. Jake Norwood would probably know.

Working on the translation still, in all of my "Free time." Unfortunately it's on the back burner with more important projects up front for now.

That being said, it's definitely something more of a "cut and thrust" type of fight as opposed to, say, something like Capo Ferro.

Jake

[Tobias Hartranft]

The Spanish style also holds a unique difference from other sword styles that's worth being mentioned, the noteworthy idea that one does not lunge in Spanish style, but rather steps in quickly upon seeing the oppurtunity, unlike pretty much every other rapier style in existance during it's usage. Another difference Spanish holds from the others styles is that you raise your arm to a point where the sword tip is an inch or two LOWER than your hand, causing you to disengage over the opponent's blade, a quite unique technique.