Learning too slow/Trying to learn too fast

[Matt_Bruskotter]

Hey guys,
I'm a newcomer to ARMA and I was wondering if any of you have any guidlines to keep newbies from trying to learn too fast or how to keep them from learning too slow. I've been drilling my rump off and I'd like to spar more and learn more techniques but I'm worried that I'm just getting over excited about the material and not focusing on using proper technique to perfection. Or is learning something to perfection overkill? I know it's a somewhere in the middle but I wanted to hear some feedback on the subject. Thanks!

[Jake_Norwood]

Hi Matt.

A fantastic area of middle ground--good for refining technique and learning to spar with technique is quarter-speed free play with wasters. Focus on doing the techniques you've been drilling, not necessarily "trying to win." You'll learn more when you lose, anyway. Expiriment with ideas and things you've read about or conjectured based on drilling and reading the manuals. Do this often. As you get better and better at it you'll be able to incorporate more speed and control into sparring, free play, and drilling alike.

Jake

[Matt_Bruskotter]

I guess I was looking for how long most of you drill a move until you're satisfied and move on to another technique. I tend to drill a technique 3-4 times a week for an hour before I move on to something new. That is, if I can by myself. I can't have a senior member at my house every time I drill to comment on my technique. One can only dream. <img src="/forum/images/icons/grin.gif" alt="" /> What drills do most of you do by yourselves and how quickly do you move through the manuals?

[Aaron Pynenberg]

Good question Matt, being fairly new myself I can only answer based on my limited expirence base, but I like to think I have some skill, and this leads me to my answer. It depends! It depends on the individual the individuals aptitude and atheticism. Naturally the more of yourself you dedicate the more you will incorporate the skills. There is overkill perhaps at our stage since technique can be off when you first start, and if you constantally drill bad technique it could haunt you.

As for me I train about two hours dailiy really hitting the basic drills. (did I give you one of my training sheets in Columbus?) If so I really follow that as best I can-then of course diverge from it when I am trying new things, but I always try and hit those basic skills each day, guards, 8-cut, alt 8-cut, 10 cut, vert ober/unter with wrist weights and without,etc....

I have started now to wear that basinet just about the whole session which really fatigues me. I love the challenge of keeping that thing on for the whole cycle which is surprisingly difficult. I would like to get myself into a full harness and train with that puppy, which I think would add a considerable amount of diffuculty to the sessions.

I also find that books I have all-ready read which at the time some material didn't reach me the first time around is sinking in much better now that I have a little expirence-so continue to re-read those texts, (especially John's Book)

Right, hope that helps a little, keep training-Aaron

[Matt_Bruskotter]

I like the wrist weights idea. I took my waster and rolled a towel around it and duct taped it as tight as I could and drill with that. Makes the sword quite heavy. Just make sure to tape it tight so the towel doesn't come flying off. Then I do your drills you gave me.

[Jake_Norwood]

Ah, Gotcha.

I think you're drilling plenty. After you feel you've got a handle on a technique (after a few days or a week of what you're describing) move on to another one, but return to drill the old ones regularly--at least once a week for a couple dozen repetitions.

And free play often. That's what cements drilling, and eventually will replace about 80% of it, IMO.

Jake

[Jaron Bernstein]

"and free play often"

That is my big problem. I spend lots of time fighting imaginary people in my back yard but only get to play with people for 2 hours per week. It seems that it is far easier to make things work on the invisible shadow opponent than Matthew swinging a padded at me. Beyond making the most of the Sunday class, how do you work on improving your sparring when alone?

[JeffGentry]

Hey Jaron

It seems that it is far easier to make things work on the invisible shadow opponent than Matthew swinging a padded at me.

Me personaly i think most people in the beginning try to hard to not get hit while they are tying new thing's, i know i do it on occasion.

Don't worry so much about getting hit concentrate on doing what you want and watch for opening's as they present themselve's, there are alot of scenario's were a technique could be used and you see it to late don't try to force it file it away in your brain and try to get the opponent to do the same thing again, Initialy when you free play spar you will have to learn to see the opening and get the feel for how to set it up.

Grace, focus, fluidity, this is the key.


Jeff

[Jake_Norwood]

Jeff's right, I think.

Also, if you're worried about getting hit, you're sparring--not lightly free-playing with wasters. The kind of free play I'm talking about is experimental. It's a form of low-risk, low-commitment practice for ironing things out and building up to the kind of speed you want.

Another useful drill is to flourysh competitively. Well, sort of. What I mean is stand about 20 feet away from your "opponent." Then shadowbox each other. When he attacks, you perform the cut, deflection, counter, parry, or whatever other technique would be apropriate for his movement. You'll learn to see openings, attack constantly, and deflect his strikes--all without touching, and without fear of "losing." Make sure that you move around a lot. This should require a lot of space as you weave about.

None of this replaces actual full-speed sparring, of course, but it all helps.

Jake

[JeffGentry]

Hey Jake

What I mean is stand about 20 feet away from your "opponent." Then shadowbox each other. When he attacks, you perform the cut, deflection, counter, parry, or whatever other technique would be apropriate for his movement. You'll learn to see openings, attack constantly, and deflect his strikes--all without touching, and without fear of "losing." Make sure that you move around a lot.

I have also just defended myself in sparring and looked for certain opening's and when and how they occured not even caring if i got hit when i saw a certain opening i got hit and ended the sparring it was strictly for learning to look and think while under attack and not be concerned about losing because i was not sparring to win only to learn.

Don't tell your opponent he may go easy or change what he does and defeat the purpose of doing it.


Jeff

[Aaron Pynenberg]

Jeff,

Hey man how's it going. Not sure if I understand the purpose of seeing an opening and then doing nothing? Am I understanding you right, If so, I am not sure that technique will really help you to defend the opening. If you get hit in sparring you always can analyze it and then take steps to try and defend it, this statement seems as if you are setting up some doubt with your training partners. I think that is a mistake, you have to give your best to your partners so that they improve and bring everyone up to the same skill sets.

I know that when I started the study group here, I pretty much hit them all at will. Now they are ringing my bell on a pretty consistant basis, which just helps me get better as well, so in essence there really is no "loser" and "winner" but instead both parties "win" as skills improve together- what do you think?- Aaron

[TimSheetz]

HI Aaron,

The way I understood Jeff's meaning was that as your understanding of how to engage opponents grows, you start to see the openings before you can rreact to them. This is the beginning of understanding when to click the reflexive moves in... first you see the openings you just missed the opportunity to expoit.. then you start to exploit them as you get better.

My two cents....

Peace

Tim

[JeffGentry]

Hey Guy's

first you see the openings you just missed the opportunity to expoit.. then you start to exploit them as you get better.

Exactly Tim, if you see the opening and miss striking it why continue this is practice not a contest, learn to recognize what just happened and end the fight, start again and be ready.

This is an occasional thing not every day.

Jeff

[Aaron Pynenberg]

I see, why end the fight though, seems that would break up the encounter quite a bit. I get what you mean know Jeff and actually Kevin Peterson and I were just talking about this during our last session. I even mentioned to him how, you can almost start to sense even before you engage each other how the fight is going to play out. It may be because we are getting so used to each other, but it also has something to do with what you are talking about I think.

I still disagree with stopping the bout though, and it has nothing to do with "winning" but if you did stop, then the fluid nature of the encounter is disrupted. We even keep pushing ourslelves to keep going even when there is a good hit- on into ringen and then continuing until a choke hold or someone wins the "clinch" etc..

We always discuss it then, and mention even discuss the "hits" but we try not to stop. This shares the same theory as the "microfight" style of teaching distrubance resolution. What happens is the encounter is scripted to a certain degree so that the combatants get a chance to continue dispite someone possibly gaining the upper hand. It does not reach the level of "choreographed" but gets you used to the motions so to say--

[JeffGentry]

Hey Aaron

The reason I stop is because IMO it overload's your brain with the rest of the fight and you don't have time to prcess and remember what just in that split second happened, I think it is similar to using video because you can see opening's imediately after the fight and it is fresh in your mind as far as the movement's that took place and small visual cue's.

The visual cue's are very important those are what enable you to react very quickly, The visual is like a camera and goes right to the brain like recording to video tape, if you over load your brain it has to "compress" the information like compressing a song to MP3 it lose's the little sound's and you may lose small detail's in the memory because thing's are coming very quickly.

That is why you need 300,000 repetition's to learn those small detail's.

Remember this is MO.

Jeff