My first sword has arrived!

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Alfred Wong
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My first sword has arrived!

Postby Alfred Wong » Sun Oct 02, 2005 2:59 am

My first sword has finally arrived! It was made by Tinker-

Did a quite crazy test cut today <img src="/forum/images/icons/cool.gif" alt="" />

I will post the review soon, please stay tuned <img src="/forum/images/icons/smile.gif" alt="" />

Image
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Brian Hunt
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Re: My first sword has arrived!

Postby Brian Hunt » Sun Oct 02, 2005 11:00 am

Hey,

don't tease us like that with just an edge on view. We need to see the profile baby. <img src="/forum/images/icons/smile.gif" alt="" />

Congrats on the new toy.

Brian Hunt
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Jeffrey Hull
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Re: My first sword has arrived!

Postby Jeffrey Hull » Sun Oct 02, 2005 12:12 pm

I actually look forward to a review by someone like you.

And yes, more photos please.
<img src="/forum/images/icons/wink.gif" alt="" />
Thanks,
JLH

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Alfred Wong
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Re: My first sword has arrived!

Postby Alfred Wong » Sun Oct 02, 2005 4:34 pm

Seems that Lance is busy updating the site and still editing the video, gotta post more before everything's ready!

Image

The sword has these spex:

Length: ~47 inches
Weight: 3.55 lbs
CoG: ~4.5 inches
Handle: ~10 inches

Big ol' buddy, like me <img src="/forum/images/icons/smile.gif" alt="" />

The test cutting target included pig skull- no observable damage after the cutting though. But Lance's... <img src="/forum/images/icons/frown.gif" alt="" />
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Alfred Wong
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Re: My first sword has arrived!

Postby Alfred Wong » Mon Oct 03, 2005 1:29 am

Dear All,

Video has been finished editing, still writing the review:

Lance's cutting with Albion Brescia Spadona
http://lancelot.servehttp.com/gathering/lancelot-test-cut.mpg

Alfred's cutting with Tinker-Alfred Warsword No. 2:
http://lancelot.servehttp.com/gathering/Alfred-test-cut.mpg

Regards,
Alfred
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Alfred Wong
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Re: My first sword has arrived!

Postby Alfred Wong » Mon Oct 03, 2005 6:29 am

At this year’s April, through Lancelot I made contacts with the famous American blade smith Michael ‘Tinker” Pearce. After some e-mail exchange, I ordered through the service of Lancelot. The second sword was finished before the first sword is done, as there was an accident that ruined the first blade, which is featuring hollow grind. So the second sword arrived first, and the first sword is still being made when I am writing this review.

After talking with Michael about some design and ideas that I though on sword, he gave me some very good opinion and answers helpfully. After the final design was confirmed, I waited for my dream sword to arrive.

A few days ago when Michael said that my sword had been shipped I had been anticipating, as I wasn’t at home on that very morning, I went to the express company by myself at night.

I felt strange when I got the box. Why wasn’t the box locked? And oh – it was the scabbard! And when I open it, there’s another big surprise. The sword was in the scabbard, while Michael didn’t ship like that. It must be somebody!

The tip was not bent when I pulled the sword out from the scabbard. The handling sensation is nice, but the guard and pommel was completely different from what I have been expecting. I wanted a 10 inches long arc type guard while it turns out to be a cruciform, and the block like scent stopper didn’t came up as expected… The unexpected design actually fit the sword practically with very nice effect; one can easily use the sword with these fitting. The thing that I was too happy about is that there’s no ricasso, of which I have noted in the design. So some fingering techniques cannot be used safely.

Although there are some surprises to me, at the same time, Michael seems to have knew what I really want. He actually improved the designed a lot, and had fitted my expectation of “A war sword in high medieval field that can be used against armour, or as a civilian self defense weapon, which can be used against all manner of weapon.” The design of purely straight, width diminishing from forte to tip blade guaranteed a good thrusting blade (due to the good supporting power), while it also weakened the cutting power. Michael designed it nicely; he kept the tip portion wide enough while gradually increase the width of the blade down to the forte. This means the blade has considerably power against armour while can also work well in cutting. Or to describe in a much better way, the blade has a concave taper profile. This is much smarter than my original design; again I am much appreciated Michael’s sophisticated skill.

The blade is in diamond cross section with slightly convex curve. The secondary bevel is very sharp, I would know the power of it when I test cut later. The cruciform guard and the pommel are nice, only that there are some scratches and some weird blade spots. Perhaps they are some minor rusting. Comparing to the parts made by casting, the parts made by stock removal, although have flaws, still look better. Perhaps it’s due to the regular scratching effect due to grinding.

The look of the sword is marvelous. Although there are some minor unbalances on the appearances in some very small places, still they are not problem. The most noticeable thing is the fuller, one of the fuller was quite obviously unbalanced, it looked awkward when fitted with the guard. But still it’s not a big problem. The actual error is in between 0.5mm to 2mm.

Handling the sword, aside from that “solid” feeling, I also feel that the sword is reliable. This is a war sword, both the length and weight are close to the upper limit of long sword. It’s sturdy and useful: Like other medieval swords, there is no fancy decoration. But the simple yet elegant construction let us feel that it is “honest” and “reliable”. Or, is the sword actually like it’s owner? I feel that the sword expressed my personal character, big and solid, not caring much about little fuss.

After talking about the design I shall talk about the data. It’s length is about 47 inches, weighted 3.55 pounds, CoB from guard at about 4.5 inches and with a handle at about just a bit more than 10 inches long. Base thickness at 8.5 mm and is 2mm at the tip. For those of you who are familiar with the figure of Tinker’s sword, his swords are usually much lighter than this. The large figures are due to my personal flavour in design.

These figures also indicate that the sword has a very solid construction. Although it’s lighter than my practicing weapon, the balance is much more to the tip and, for having not been practicing for a month and a half, I cannot push the speed limit to maximum. Michael had materialized the idea of “Harmonic balance” and “Dynamic balance”. To say the main reason, the sword is balanced well that the vibration of the sword is greatly reduced to a point that when the blade alignment change in a certain motion, the required energy is greatly reduced as the efficiency of energy transfer is extremely high. Also because of the weight and balance, after casting the sword out it would automatically and gracefully finish off the cutting motion. Unless the action is wrong, or the recover from a strike would be very comfortable. The sword is perfect on maneuverability and controllability. It’s no need to talk about thrusting, the straight, uninterrupted thrusting motion gave me a sensation of freedom…

To conclude, I would describe this sword as “living”. This sword is like that it actually lives. When you handle it you would feel that the sword actually has life in it. With the communion with this sword, one can experience the law of swordsmanship. It just likes a good friend in life. This “lively” feeling may due to the minor flaws of the sword, or the skill and the heart of the craftsman. This wonderful sensation cannot be expressed with words at all.

############################################################################################
This is the report on the test cutting of the sword. In this experiment, two swords were tested. The first sample is from the Albion Swords LTD, the Brescia Spadona from the Museum Line. The second one is the Tinker-Alfred War-sword No. 2.

The set up of the experiment is a target on a non fixed PVC plastic tube, with leather wrapped. This allows some diversion of force after the cutting. Of course, live targets would not diverge the force after being cut. So this set up can be said to be more challenging than a live target.

The target in this experiment is pork. Aside from the usual pork arm, pig heads were also prepared. Pigs’ constitution is tougher than human.

Result of the Brescia Spadona:

Pig’s head: The cut can cut into the cheekbone. The edge was extensively damaged and became serrated.

Result of Tinker-Alfred War-Sword No.2:

Pork arm: No matter if it is a diagonal cut or a vertical cut, the strike cut into the arm with tissue connecting the remains. The last strike, aside from completely cutting the pork arm into two, also split the leather wrapped PVC tube clearly.

Pig’s head: Every cut can cut deep into the cheekbone, not observable damage on the edge afterwards. The thrust sliced the tissue upon contact. After cutting, the thread of cord-wrap handle was loosed out.

Conclusion:

The Tinker-Alfred War-Sword No.2 performed better than the Brescia Spadona, in both cutting performance and durability.

The damaged edge of the Albion Brescia Spadona sample
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The edge of Tinker-Alfred War-sword No.2 sample:
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Lance Chan
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Re: My first sword has arrived!

Postby Lance Chan » Mon Oct 03, 2005 6:52 am

I would like to add that the Tinker's sword features a concave distal taper, which means the thickness diminished much faster at the base of the sword than the other part of the sword. The distal taper is non-linear.

The hardness of the replacement Brescia Spadona at the damaged spot was between 55HRC to 50HRC, lower than the first one I have that was 55HRC right at the edge. However, the outcome wasn't that different between the two swords. Hardness reading doesn't paint the whole picture. I've to say though, in terms of appearance, the second replacement is a FAR better one! It is even better than the show sword and the review sword on some website with the rivet block totally integrated with the shape of the pommel that one can't tell there's a rivet block at all. Plus Albion took the effort to make every line of the sword clear and as symmetric as hand-made possible (in terms of western sword standard).

As of whether the damage on Brescia spadona is extensive or not, I'm not educated enough to say for there are many experts out there to determine what's the acceptable wear and tear on a historical accurate medieval sword. However, it is now clear what set my standard of expectation in terms of durability 3 years ago when I bought my first tinker's sword.
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Alfred Wong
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Re: My first sword has arrived!

Postby Alfred Wong » Mon Oct 03, 2005 10:25 am

One thing to add- for reference, the estimated market price of the Tinker-Alfred WS2 cost USD 800 including shipping and the single -seamed leather scabbard. While Lance's Brescia listed price cost 1500 without shipping and scabbard.
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Randall Pleasant
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Re: My first sword has arrived!

Postby Randall Pleasant » Tue Oct 04, 2005 1:39 am

Alfred Wong wrote:
Michael had materialized the idea of “Harmonic balance” and “Dynamic balance”. To say the main reason, the sword is balanced well that the vibration of the sword is greatly reduced to a point that when the blade alignment change in a certain motion, the required energy is greatly reduced as the efficiency of energy transfer is extremely high. Also because of the weight and balance, after casting the sword out it would automatically and gracefully finish off the cutting motion. Unless the action is wrong, or the recover from a strike would be very comfortable. The sword is perfect on maneuverability and controllability.
Alfred

Let me start by saying that I am not commenting on the quality of your sword. I have no reason to not believe most everything you have said about the quality of the sword, its cutting abilities, and that it is perfectly balanced for you.

What I am commenting on is the the spread of a myth, the so called “Harmonic Blance” theory that is pushed by some sword makers. How well the sword cuts has <u>nothing</u> to do with any vibrations in the blade. Any vibrations in the sword represents an extremely small amount of engery. In addition, any material you cut will act as a dampper to those vibrations (Senior ARMA Researcher George Turner, personal communication, 2005). Past a vibrating tunning fork between two fingers as if you are cuting into you hand - what happens? The vibrations are damppened! We can also assume that the vibrations in the fork represents a lot more engergy than the vibrations in a sword blade - so do your fingers suffer great cuts at the touch of the tunning fork?

The “Harmonic Blance” theory is simply about marketing, it has no scientific support. Like everything else in the world, swords are subject to the laws of physics. A number of other people on another forum keep talking about doing some research to support the theory but they never do - the Laws of Physics are hard to get around. The “Harmonic Blance” theory is a myth that has done great harm to these arts and to the education of the public. So it is that another business spreads of a false theory amoung the public for the sake of a few sales. I think the “Harmonic Blance” theory should have been added to the end of John Clements recent article <a href="http://www.thearma.org/essays/TopMyths.htm"> Top Myths of Renaissance Martial Arts</a>.

I would suggest that you read George Turner's ground breaking article <a href="http://www.thearma.org/spotlight/GTA/motions_and_impacts.htm">Sword Motions and Impacts: An Investigation and Analysis</a>. I would also suggest that you start another thead in which to engage George in further discussions on how swords perform in the real word.


Good luck in your studies and may you safely enjoy you new sword.+
Ran Pleasant

Alfred Wong
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Re: My first sword has arrived!

Postby Alfred Wong » Tue Oct 04, 2005 8:30 am

Dear Randell,

Got it. I also believe that those stuff can be explained easily without a cliche term, was actually trying to talk about those thing they keep saying on SFI. I would just like to refer to the fact that "the sword feels good, because the structure... that allow it to."

I am actually translating the article too by the way, it's tiring but also rewarding- would post it in the Chinese communities later.

Cheers,
Alfred
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Alfred Wong
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Re: My first sword has arrived!

Postby Alfred Wong » Tue Oct 04, 2005 8:48 am

How well the sword cuts has nothing to do with any vibrations in the blade.


Perhaps to make it clear, I actually handled a badly made yet expensive Chinese Two handed jian before this. The sword actually just flex right out when you change the blade alignment, from the high guard to diagonal cut. So your force just flex out- sorry to be confusing on that. I am actually meaning that the sword would not just "flex out" and diverge the force while in cutting or so.
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Jeffrey Hull
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Re: My first sword has arrived!

Postby Jeffrey Hull » Tue Oct 04, 2005 1:42 pm

Thanks for clarifying about the *flex* -- that makes sense when you provided the comparison.
JLH



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Jeremy Martin
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Re: My first sword has arrived!

Postby Jeremy Martin » Tue Oct 04, 2005 8:46 pm

Nice sword Alf. Very 'clean' looking. Glad it cuts well and is durable too. I'll need to get that guy's number from ya.

Now I need to get me a good sword like that with frills, to be different.

Can't say I know much about harmonic balance, though I did once balance a harmonica on my finger, if that helps(and I can do the 'Choo-choo Train').
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Jeffrey Hull
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Re: My first sword has arrived!

Postby Jeffrey Hull » Fri Oct 07, 2005 11:58 am

Well Alfred, it seems that the results of your test-cutting against the swine-skull with your Tinker-made sword makes for a promising future in your cutting practice. Have fun with your sword and good luck!
JLH



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