A question

[TimJentoft]

Hello there! I have a question that I hope is relevant. I have an interest in the fighting styles of the vikings(being a norwegian cultural nut...), and I was wondering if anyone here had any insights to offer. My own research has yielded little of use, mostly notes on the arms and armor they used. Also, most of the information I have found has been colored by the writings of those who witnessed the viking raids, and as we know, most of these descibe the vikings as bloodthirsty savages who found semi-naked, with bloodcurdling warcries on their lips, a wooden shield, and an axe.

So, to get back to the issue: are there any members who might help me on my quest?

[Shane Smith]

Try this; http://www.thearma.org/essays/vikingfight.htm

[TimJentoft]

Thanks!

[Allen Johnson]

This is a dilema I ran into when I was hired to do fight choreography for a Viking/Anglo-Saxon film being shot last summer. I read alot of the sagas, applied the basic principals of sword and buckler (granted there will be some changes dues to shield and sword size) also just good martial sense and came up with something that I hope, if at least a plausible solution.

[TimJentoft]

The problem with the sagas is that they often have some embelishments that make it difficult to know if what you're reading about the fighting styles is correct. And often(at least in Snorre), it's just a matter of "...he swung at the foe, and cut him down."

[Matthew_Anderson]

Yes, the sagas give us a tantalizing glimpse into the real fighting of the period might have been like, but it's hard to know how much is pure myth or legend and details that would help us recreate it are often missing. Of course, a lot of other "historical" material may also be more laced with myth than we realize <img src="/forum/images/icons/smile.gif" alt="" /> .

[JeanryChandler]

One thing that seems apparent from reading a lot of the sagas, (like 10 of them) is that nearly all of the fights portrayed are very quick and very brutal and deadly. A lot more like Kirosawa Samurai flicks or Spaghetti Westerns than say, the Three Musketeers.

Jr

[TimJentoft]

Well, if you've ever done any serious stick fighting, you know it can be over very quickly... Very quickly indeed...

[Jay Vail]

if you've ever done any serious stick fighting, you know it can be over very quickly

Tim, I know all tfour of the guys who answered your post and I have crossed swords with Jeanry, and they all have "serious fighting" experience and know very well that once swords are drawn the contest is decided "very quickly."

[TimJentoft]

Seems I worded my reply badly. I meant that some fight are over before they even start. Sorry for any offense or confusion.

[Bill Tsafa]

Remeber to use a slipped grip (hand shake grip) with a viking sword. The grip on a viking sword is typicaly shorter the other swords. Hold it with the pinky finger relaxed over the pommol. Even the index finger can be somewhat relaxed. The ring finger does most of the work. A viking sword only weighs about 2 lbs so don't choke it with your big paws. The five loaf pommol will dig into your wrist if you hold the grip full fisted and tight. This is a light sword so you have to use the flexibility of the wrists to realy whip it and give it speed at the moment of impact.

Remeber that this weapon is used with a round light. Most blocking should be done with the shield. Your cuts should be mostly diagonal. If you are right handed cut horizontaly right to left with the false edge. Virtical upper cut can also be done with the false edge. Vertical downcut with the true edge. Keep your cuts simple. Fancy sword duels had not been invented yet in the viking age.

I know I'am gona catch some flack for this one, but I heard that vikings often had to straigten their blades out in the middle of battle because they where so thin and tended to bend. It can get pretty cold in northern Europe so it would make sence for Vikings to work their metals more twards flexibility then stiffness. Stiff blades tend to break in the cold. So limit any thrusting.

[Allen Johnson]

Here comes the flak... <img src="/forum/images/icons/wink.gif" alt="" />
I'd be interested to see any documentation on guys having to straighten their blades and then to continue fighitng with them? I could possibly understand them getting messed up and having a smith fix them later. I really dont think that they were that thin. Many viking era blades have a wide, deep, fuller running the legnth of the sword- a feature that would not be present in such a thin, bendable blade.
http://www.albion-swords.com/swords/albion/nextgen/sword-viking-vinland.htm
(see also Petersen's typology of viking swords)
The tips on viking swords were a bit more rounded than what we might see on a late 14th cent longsword, but they certainly are sharp and very capable of a thrust. That combined with a wide, thick ricasso, plus a shorter blade that most of the later single hand types, make it a very formidable and effective weapon.
"Fancy sword duels" never existed anywhere as far as I'm concerned. Anytime duels were done in earnest, it is never about being "fancy", it's about being fast, effective and brutal. The Vikings did have a very formal system of organized dueling where the combatants would fight. There are some versions where they were stripped to the waist, some where they had 3 shields and a few spears with them- I seem to recall one where there was a special small island they went to, to fight and only one would be able to come ashore. I'm at work and dont have my texts on me do document, but I'll try to get my sources when I get home.
Yes it was simple and effective, but so is every other efficient form of combat.

[Bill Tsafa]

Unfortunately I can not remember where I read it. I tried recently to track down that information but was unable. In part the reason I included that information is because I hope someone else will read it and able to veryfiy it and give me a source. I doubt that the sword bending in question ment it made a complete U. I think they might have ment a slight bending or bowing. I have expericanced this myself with a 2 lb viking sword and my longer 3 lb norman sword on thrusting. The sword still cuts fine with a slight bend, but it is rather anoying and you want to straighten it when you get a chance.

I recommend that when people open a thread they give a more descriptive subject heading.

[TimSheetz]

I had the misfortune of warping one of my blades once, and I had the good luck to be near the maker of that blade.... he straightened the bend in it by bending it carefully over his knee. It is straight and true now.

Take that for what it is worth. DOn't know if they did it, but if you had a bad warp and had the time, it makes sense to fix it... otherwise your strikes will get worse and worse...

I remember Dan Maragni saying how certain blows at odd angles really wreaked havoc on the blade he was testing.... it is only natural that a sword with a bend in it will only be more prone to getting worse and worse very quickly.

Tim

[Stacy Clifford]

A couple of years ago a major traveling exhibit on vikings made its first American stop at the Houston Museum of Natural Science, and they had several excavated swords there. I was surprised at how very thin they really did look, and that wasn't just from the effects of corrosion. They also had one that was folded over several times into something of a spiral, with this explanation: When a viking was buried with his sword, they would often fold up the sword over their knees several times so that if he came back from the dead, he couldn't use his sword against the living. Here's the exhibit site for the curious:

Vikings: The North Atlantic Saga