Judging all three of "the wounders" in freeplay..?

[Rod-Thornton]

In re-reading through the Ringeck translations in the home library it struck me that one particular form of attack that we do not seem to measure very well during freeplay is the schnitt....and the four abschneiden.

This seems to be a weakness in training and in freeplay simply because it is clearly one of the three key ways to wound (although I'd argue there are four, if you count pommeling and crossguard bashing) as described in the source literature.

My question stems around the fact that a good thrust and the obvious connection of a mean hewing give ample bio-feedback during padded weapon bouting...but when we come to Krieg with padded forearms and/or gloves, etc. , how have folks measured a good pressing draw cut that pretty much doesn't give the same sort of bio-mechanical feedback of say, a good zwerchau to the temple? In a live steel situation I'd say the free flow of blood, lack of functioning muscle groups, etc. would give it away, but in most of the bouting I witness, we don't see many wins from a recognized schnitt across the forearms or alongside the neck area, which in the later case is usually judged as a missed thrust to the face and the bout continues. Any one else see schnitts used effectively in freeplay with any regularity when closing?

[Lance Chan]

Hmmm perhaps it's the freeplay style you have over there that leads to the missing of slicing. We have relatively more slicing over here. The judging isn't difficult at all. After all, you don't want any part of your opponent's sword edge touching your body. Once you are touched, no matter how seemingly light, and the blade was in motion, you're sliced. If you need to see how easy it was to slice someone in live blade combat, PM me for a video. It shows it's not difficult to tell in free sparring unless you are used to neglect "light hits". With the live blade experience, I would rather say virtually any "touch" with a mobile blade's edge will slice.

However, slicing cuts require the sword to have a relatively sharp edges. I don't know how many people in this forum keep their swords as sharp as I do. My sword can slice a piece of paper in half when I run the paper's edge along my sword's edge. <img src="/forum/images/icons/smile.gif" alt="" />

So our freeplay slicing judgment is based on a sword being that sharp.

[Rod-Thornton]

Hey Lance:

Hey Lance:

Yeah, thanks for the video. (Wow - what fun -western longsword against the katana). See, this is exactly what I was trying to convey. The beauty of the Lichtn. system seems to set up one particular attack immediately after another sort of one (failed or successful) and so all three wounders should probably be practiced equally (although to my mind, it seems as though the focus is more on just two of them). Case in point, in your video the thrust was (for obvious reasons) pulled short, but you displaced the opponent's weapon in pflug, transition to langenort, and get a very clear schnitt to his major muscle groups of the right arm. The follow-up versetzen/counter-thrust to his thrust and then schnitt to his hands speaks for itself, and then the duplieren to his other (left) arm doesn't land with force, although you turn it immediately into a nice follow-through with the slice and the huge gash in his coat clearly shows the schnitt's success to the muscle groups in that arm. Really the video does a good job conveying what I was wondering about in freeplay, but of course, not everyone is going to want to use live sharps for sparring...even as controlled as you guys were. In fact it is probably very frowned upon for safety's sake. And to point out my earlier comment re: bio-mechanical feedback during a fight, even your partner, after the blood was dripping from his hand, needed you to stop the fight and point out to him that you had scored a hit...he didn't even seem to realize that he had been cut.