Federfechterei

[Jeffrey Hull]

FEDERFECHTEREI, f. damit der herzog von Savoien ein spiegelfechten mit dem marechal de Catinat in Piemont anstellen, selbigem aber nicht viel weher thun solte, als wenn die Lucas- und Marcusbrüder mit ihrer federfechterei sich die köpfe ein wenig blutig schlagen und darbei den zuschauern die beutel leeren, so gut sie können. Pasquini staatsphantasien 1697 s. 323.


Source:

Das Deutsches Wörterbuch; Jacob Grimm (auth) & Wilhelm Grimm (auth); Universität Trier website; 2003


Translation:

Feather-Fightery
…therewith the Duke of Savoy, with the Marshal de Catinat, stage some sham-fighting in Piedmont, the selfsame however shall not work much woe, as when the Luke’s- and Mark’s Brothers strike the heads a little bloody with their feather-fightery, and thereby the onlookers empty the purses, so good could they be.
~ Pasquini staatsphantasien 1697 s. 323. ~


Other stuff which may or may not be useful:

I can find nothing in the Web about Pasquini staatsphantasien. Literally it seems to mean “State Fantansies of Pasquini”, for what that is worth. I do not think it has to do with composer Bernardo Pasquini (1637-1710). The “staatsphantasien” alone finds nothing at all, and the “Pasquini” alone finds hundreds of thousands of things, dealing with espresso, music, kitchenry, etc. If anyone can offer explanation for Pasquini staatsphantasien, then he/she is welcome to do so.

Apparently Pasquini staatsphantasien is some German work which records vignettes about travels or experiences in certain of the states of late 17th Century Europe. And in this case the apparently German author shows disdain for the degenerate nature of the "sham-fighting", which he finds lacking compared to the “feather-fightery” of those named German fencing brotherhoods, at the time of and/or prior to the time of 1697.

Savoy is of course tucked in between France and Italy beneath Switzerland. Piedmont is of course in modern NW Italy.

Nicolas de Catinat (1637-1712) was apparently the marshal of all France at the time of 1697, who had defeated Duke of Savoy Vittorio Amedeo (1675-1720 & 1730-32) at Battle of Staffarda (1690) in the Maritime Alps. Apparently those men were again amiable enough by 1697 to stage their entertaining event. Or perhaps it was even some ridiculous episode that they staged during a truce in the fighting of their armies. It is hard to say without more reference to Pasquini staatsphantasien and/or other sources. ~

[John_Clements]

Excellent, Jeffrey. Thanks.

This sounds remarkably like the 17th century critiques of English gladiatorial prize fightings which during the early 18th century degenerated from once serious martial displays for ranking students into mere commecrcial spectacles.

It also jogs my memory about the name of feather sword practice blades as perhaps meaning those which "harmlessly" hit like "feathers."

Let me know what else you find.

JC

[Jeffrey Hull]

I am happy that it was of interest, you are welcome.

Yeah, the surprising thing about that passage that struck me was that apparently the sham-fighters were so degenerate circa 1700 that even the earlier federfechters, with their specialised light blunts, were thought more legitimate and dangerous by those in-the-know, than said sham-fighters. As that commentator stated, at least the federfechters gave you your money's worth by drawing some blood.

And as you pointed out, the condition circa 1700 of scholastic fencing was poor throughout Europe, if not totally usurped by clown-fencing -- not just in the places mentioned in that passage, but in England and assuredly most everywhere else, at least concering use of real dedicated cutting swords, or perhaps more accurately, what pseudo-accurate facsimiles of such existed popularly at that time, as were bandied about in the sham-fights.

[John_Clements]

Well, the 18th century prize fights for entertainment were actually recorded in England as being bloodier and rougher, with almost sharp blades. Whereas the earlier ones conducted as exhibitions of skill safely employed real skills and more effective techniques. Quite a difference between their intentions and purpose, I think.

[Jeffrey Hull]

Okay, I did not realise the variance, depending both on time and place it seems. Quite interesting.