Pole Arm guards

[JeanryChandler]

In Chapter 5 (Staff Weapons), of the Martial Arts of Renaisance Europe, Sydney Anglo makes reference to what seems to be a somewhat counterintuitive guard for the use of pole -axes, specifically the idea of leading with the butt or bottom end (called the 'queue') pointed down and toward one's opponent. He seems to say that the anonymous Jeu du La Hache and several of the Masters reccomend using this guard, jabbing with the butt of the axe, and then striking with the heavy hammer or crows-bill as opportunitities are created.

He seems to be suggesting that this method is a general technique reccomended by many masters for use in all staff weapons, and that it springs from the use of the quarterstaff.

It has been suggested to me that this technique, if used at all, would only be appropriate for use with poll-axes, and not any other staff weapon.

But Anglo seems to include the technique for the halberd, the partisan, and the bill as well. On page 160 he shows a woodcut (from Marozzo) depicting a man using the butt-first technique with a bill. Anglo goes on to that Marozzo describes techniques for thrusting with the 'heel' of the bill (Roncha). He says that Di Grassi also mentions it, but only as a technique for facing pikes.

Here is a picture of the guard in use
http://bellsouthpwp.net/d/e/deodand23/halberd1.jpg

I was skeptical of this method at first, then as I saw more evidence of it in use historically and by medieval fencing and living history groups, became convinced that it was worth a try, and finally tried it myself with some success using both staff and halberd. In a discussion about ways to penetrate mail, I brought this up pole arm technique up, but it was suggested to me that this method was not really used with pole arms. If it was used at all, it was only with poll-axes.

So now I'm back to square one. I have seen some evidence that this method was used, but I also contradictory evidence that it was not. Do y'all have much experience with staff weapons? Does anyone know of further historical evidence to clarify the matter? Any help would be appreciated.

JR

[Casper Bradak]

What's the difference between that and guards that point the pommel of your sword at your opponent, such as some vom tag and tail guards?
A great deal of pole arms, especially pollaxes, had a butt spike, or a cap.
Even the butt of a simple staff can break a mans skull. And if you intend to deliver blows with a weapon, a guard for that purpose is only natural.

[Jay Vail]

There is a guard somewhat similar to that shown for the poleax in the Asian staff and spear.

[Guest]

I never read any pole arm manuals, but the first time I picked up one for sparing I went to that guard in the picture.
Not sure if that helps any. <img src="http://www.thearma.org/forum/images/icons/grin.gif" alt="" />

[Jared L. Cass]

Hi all, I'm resurecting this thread because I've reciently started to mess around with pole arms/staff weapons/whatever.

I'd love to hear some of Stacy's comments as, as far as I know, he's the ARMA member who's probably done the most practical experimentation with said weapons.

So, some quick questions to get us started:

What is the most common way of handling the staff? Lead with the right hand forward on the shaft, or the left hand forward? If the weapon has a business end (like a halbard, spear, pole-axe, ect), which hand is usually nearest that part of the weapon?

Same goes for foot-work. Which leg usually leads (befor any passing steps are made)?

I'm sure the nature of the weapon makes these things rather variable, but right now, I'm just looking for generalizations. Thanks.

Jared L. Cass, ARMA Associate, Wisconsin

[Webmaster]

Hi Jared,

I've been doing staff, haven't really played with other pole arms much yet, but most of the same principles apply. I'm working on some staff material now which I hope to release soon, but I'm not done editing yet.

For the which hand forward question, the answer is either, practice both. Meyer teaches primarily with the left hand and foot forward for convenience, but says you can fight the same from both sides. Swetnam is a great basic guide for staff, and he specifically says that you should always oppose your opponent's hand to be in a strong position to defend. In other words, if his left hand and foot are forward, yours should be also, because defending forward is safer than defending back. Swetnam also instructs students to practice shifting your grip from right to left so that you can do it swiftly and smoothly should your opponent switch his against you.

Surprisingly, there's not as much passing footwork with staff as you might think, even when making strikes. That's a bit long to explain while I'm eating lunch at work, though, so I'll save it for when I've got more time.

[Jared L. Cass]

Cool. Thanks Stacy. Looking forward to what you've got to elaberate on. <img src="/forum/images/icons/smile.gif" alt="" />

Jared L. Cass, ARMA Associate, Wisconsin

[Shawn Cathcart]

I think the validity of this technique relies more on the length of the pole-arm used, than the type. Bills, Pole-Axes, staffs could very easily utilize this guard. Longer style halberds and spears might make it unfeasible. Its a perfectly acceptable technique so long as the pole isn't too long. With the poleaxe it does quite a sufficient job of taking off the point and letting you jam the butt in under arms or wrists, or rather setting aside the blow with the queue and snapping forward with the axe head for a blow. This happens very fast from what we've played around with here. Also it can be used to give a target, namely with the business end held back over the shoulder and the butt forward and low, one is inclined to take a strike at your head. The middle of the pole-axe is then easily used to defend yourself, and either the queue or axe/hammer can be employed in several ways with strikes, thrusts and binds.

As for which hand/foot leads it seems to be merely a matter of preference, and it is very easy to change hand grips from left to right and vice versa with a little practice. What seemed to make more difference was the grip of the leading hand. In the pole-axe manuals I've seen so far, the forward hand has the palm up, supporting the weight of the shaft in the palm. In most staff work the hand is the other way, gripping the shaft from the top. The latter grip makes it really easy to switch sides with your grip, especially as it applies to the staff work we've played around with here. I guess I would say for any pole-arm that has any striking ability, and isn't overly long this guard would make sense. Spear wouldn't be very useful from this guard, and perhaps glaives and long shafted halberds and the like would also potentially find it hard to use. Just my opinion though <img src="/forum/images/icons/smile.gif" alt="" />.