Free Contact Sparring With Schlager Blades

[Guest]

Hi to all forum members. I am a new member of this forum and I would like to hear a veteran's opinion regarding this query.

I and a group of my friends (who are, or used to be sports fencers) based in Malta have been practising rapier combat in local re-enactments for the past couple of years. So far, this has involved us staging rehearsed duels during these events with replica blades.

However, we would like to go further than that, with our final aim being to be able to train in historically accurate rapier combat, using schlager weapons in order to be able to conduct free sparring exercises.

After some research, we have purchased some schlager blades. Although the point is blunted, the blade is somewhat more stiff than I expected it to be, which has raised some safety concerns amongst our group. Do we need to put some kind of stopper on the tip in order to increase safety, or can the swords be used as is?

Another question, apart from fencing jackets, masks, groin guards and gauntlets, what other safety equipment would we need to do this?

Thank you for your attention.

Stephan Swain

[Shane Smith]

Hi Stephan,

I have no experience with the rapier as medieval weapons are my area of interest but I fully understand your dilemma. Our local group does alot of armoured work with blunts and as the techniques involved are inclusive of thrusts to the face and joints,the training is exceedingly dangerous(we're not wearing visors in accordance with what we see in Fiore's work of 1410 and many plates in the Codex Wallerstein). A single mistake means tradgedy.As I rule,I wear safety glasses to protect my eyes and of course,the plate and maille protect my body, but even here compromises must be made.We are not doing full-speed work with true anti-armour blades as the tip would still pose a huge danger to our bodies as they can defeat maille.Our group has had to settle on less accutely tapered blades with blunted tips to keep us whole during our full-intent work.We don't like it but compromises must be made sometimes in the interest of safety.Good luck and welcome to the forum <img src="http://www.thearma.org/forum/images/icons/smile.gif" alt="" />

[David Kite]

Well, my (now sadly defunct) rapier group used schlagers for several months before we switched to Alchem blades, and because of the stiffness of the schlagers, some additional blunting was absolutely necessary. It wouldn't surprise me if they were stiff enough to pierce somebody's hide with a strong enough thrust. We never used blades without some additional blunting; ie, adhesive tape (the type used for first aid) liberally wrapped around the point, and later with the Alchems we added birdie blunts on top of the tape. In addition to our sparring gear, we were able to go pretty well "all out" so long as we didn't continue the thrust after decisive contact was made. In other words, we pulled our puches, and even then we knew when we were hit, and generally walked away with light rashes.

The only drawback with the tape of course is having this very visible "bulb" of a point which made attacks easier to void because we could of course see the point coming. Also, when we relied soley on the tape, we had to keep the points in constant maintenance, because the more we hit home, the faster the tape would wear away, and before long we could be getting poked with bare steel, which hurts significantly more. <img src="http://www.thearma.org/forum/images/icons/tongue.gif" alt="" /> The birdie blunts cut down on the visibility of the point, and pretty well eliminated the maintenance issue as long as they were securely fastened.

The only equipment we used in addition to yours was a leather gorget worn beneath the mask which for us was a very good addition because we were hitting each other in the throat as often as anywhere else, and for some stupid reason, my weapon had this nasty habit of making underneath the bib of my opponent's mask. <img src="http://www.thearma.org/forum/images/icons/shocked.gif" alt="" />

I am far from very experienced in rapier sparring, but I hope this helps.

David Kite
ARMA in IN

[Casper Bradak]

Stiff blades and lack of safety equipment are easily made up for by using the historical method (control) hehe
After all, in the days of the rapier there were no floppy blades and fencing masks. Not that modern conveniences aren't a great help, just don't be "fearful". I used bird blunts on my schlager and foiled rapier, they work pretty well. About as small as you can get it.
For unlimited targets I think the bare essentials are cup, mask and neck protection, with gloves and some body protection, maybe joint pads, being very reccommended, in my experience.

[Stuart McDermid]

I agree 100% with Casper.

Control is the best armour. Actual armour is a back up.

I personally believe that using schlager blades to do anything but schlager fencing is a mistake. Get a historically accurate blunt, make a thrusting tip for it. (read Swetnam for ideas) get a three weapon fencing mask a gorget and make a sturdy doublet or buff coat and *then* go play. You have far more chance of interpreting a manual correctly when using the right weapon..... being able to use the right weapon with very close to full intent is one of the advantages of practicing rapier over many other sword styles.
Cheers,
Stu.

[Shane Smith]

Casper and Stu alluded to it and now I'll add that the most important piece of safety equipment is between your ears.

[Guest]

Thanks for all your comments guys. We'll try David's advice re-the adhesive tape for the schlager tips, as well as applying the ever useful common sensein order not to injure each other and enjoy our hobby to the full.