Asian/Other MA Influences

[Laurent Marshall]

Heres a few questions I have been thinking about;

Many of us have MA experience outside of WMA, in various asian, and other arts.
how does that experience influence your interpretations of the historical manuals? An Aikido practitioner may have a vary different interpretation of a technique based on their knowledge and philosophy, than say, someone who has studied tae kwon do.

My experience with karate, and slight experience with Aikido, have pretty much taught me that the human body can only move in so many ways. What I've found to be different is the philosophy of movement. this philosophy dictates how movements are put together in a sort of system, like tae kwon do or karate. How well can we deduce a philosophy of movement from the source manuals? In my experience, specifically with Aikido, there are huge degrees of subtlety that are hard to grasp even when you have seen a technique demonstrated, had it performed on yourself, and tried to actually do it. How well can we expect to understand the subtleties when we are relying on words and illustrations? This leads back to my first question of how your prior MA experiences influence your interpretations of the source manuals.

-Thanks

[Casper Bradak]

I think that if you follow the advice, instructions, and pinciples set forth in the manuals, and when you perform the techniques, you look like the pictures in the manuals (to the point of common sense with some) then any knowledge of modern, asian, or otherwise different martial arts can only fill in the blanks and assist in performing them well, taking care of the details they didn't have the paper and time to explain, or assumed you knew.
But if some of those things are ignored, some influence will obviously glare through. For example the otherwise very good book English Martial Arts.

[Gene Tausk]

Most martial arts practitioners at a certain point in their training realize, or are taught, that part of martial arts, a very important part, is learning how to move effectively. It is clear, of course, that previous MA experience will help to define one's definition of moving effectively.

I disagree that a philosophy of movement dictates how we form a system. "Systems" are an artificial limitation placed on fighting arts. As the great Bruce Lee once said, fighting arts should be about stripping away to the essentials.

As for relying on illustrations and books, keep in mind that serious practice will reveal how a technique works and the way in which an illustration or description of a technique can be interpreted.

[James_Knowles]

I'm still working to "undo" some old kung fu training in my footwork. I'm much better, but occationally find myself in a wide stance that puts me in a position to get killed.

That said, it has helped in deciphering some of the manual pictures. I may not be able to do it, but I can see what is being done.

As so wisely spoken, EMA can fill in some gaps, but old systemized training can also ingrain some annoying habits.

I'm a gross "newbie," but that's my two bits. <img src="/forum/images/icons/grin.gif" alt="" />

[Trent Sharp]

Interesting James, my friend has ben having the same problem. Him and I both have dabbled into a bit of kung fu but him much deeper than I. My friend followed kung fu first then I followed but we both stopped, and have started European martial arts at the same time. We have recently received our fine wasters, and not long after I noticed that he seemed to be attacking from very bizarre ranges, and passing quite strangely. Yet he had never done this before practicing with his sharp. He could not tell what he was doing intel I mocked him. Then we both realized that he had inherited the "kung fu curse", and we spent the remainder of the unbearably hot afternoon trying to correct his footwork. With many repeated throwing of the waster and shouting noooooo! (I imagine amusing for passer byes.)

[Matt Shields]

Yes, that friend would happen to be me.

When I converted to the arts of my Ancestors, I thought I had unlearned foreign technique, but some of the poison lingered.

Just a couple weeks ago the person I spar with noticed there was a flaw in my footwork. In the style of Kung Fu I practiced I was taught to make a full pass on every step, and never retreat. (I didn’t consider footwork as much because the style I practiced used a relatively sensible stance.)

My footwork caused me to be slow, put my feet together and lean forward in place of stepping back (when blows came to the lower leg,) and parry at bizarre angles.

It also completely ruined my sense of range (not something paid much attention to in solo kung fu forms.) Almost every time I would pass from 6 feet away to grappling range against a shield in no more than a second.

One thing I also noticed, was how bizarre the weight distribution was between different styles, the one I practiced had a hard fast rule of never putting more than 25% of your body weight on your front leg, even when attacking or grappling, another part of the "curse" I had work out.

And of course since most Eastern Martial Arts oppose sparring, I could not realize any fault in the technique…

While more learned, (and far more experienced) scholars would argue that Eastern Martial Arts could assist in "filling in the gaps" my experiences have led me to oppose any form of it.