What is intent?

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JeffGentry
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What is intent?

Postby JeffGentry » Wed Aug 04, 2004 10:39 pm

What is Martial intent?

I have been thinking about this for a few day's and was wondering what other opinion's people held.

IMHO Martial intent can mean a couple diffrent thing's, i was a U.S. Marine so maybe my view is not like most, anyway to me it mean's "I will have an unconguerable, aggressive spirit which will make me desire to destroy the enemy, or I will know how to fight, survive and win on any battlefield".

What other opinion's are out there i would realy like to here what some other's think about this question.
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Erich Wagner
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Re: What is intent?

Postby Erich Wagner » Thu Aug 05, 2004 9:49 am

I think what you describe could be called more of a martial attitude. In my opinion, martial intent means I use realistic techniques with speed and power in an effort to do damage. I disregard "laser tag" touches during sparring and strive to land powerful blows to any opening my opponent leaves open.
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James_Knowles
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Re: What is intent?

Postby James_Knowles » Thu Aug 05, 2004 1:56 pm

This essay may be useful:

Teaching and Training With Intent
James Knowles
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KatherineJohnson
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Re: What is intent?

Postby KatherineJohnson » Thu Aug 05, 2004 2:04 pm

I second Erich's interpretation. I strike with the force that I think would be necessairly to reliably kill or disable an opponent. Not necessarily "full strength" but more then hard enough to ruin someones day.
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JeffGentry
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Re: What is intent?

Postby JeffGentry » Thu Aug 05, 2004 10:25 pm

James
I read the article and i do agree with what is being said by John was just wondering what some other's, thought's were on this thing we call intent.

I alway's train with intent, and was wondering whether my intent is the same as other's.

My training intention is to become accomplished enough to end a fight in as few move's as possible, no "trick's" just solid well executed technique's, i want to have enough control of my weapon(brain) and sword to do this, Doesn't your attitude have something to do with your training intent?

I have seen enough street fight's without sword's to know thing's happen very quickly, and in a sword fight i wonder if they didn't happen even quicker.

thought this topic might stimulate a little thought on what intent is, just a discussion among friend's.
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Casper Bradak
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Re: What is intent?

Postby Casper Bradak » Thu Aug 05, 2004 11:15 pm

You're stating that you have martial intentions and martial intent, which is good, but they are seperate. Not everybody has both.
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Rabbe J.O. Laine
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Re: What is intent?

Postby Rabbe J.O. Laine » Fri Aug 06, 2004 3:42 am

I'd define martial intent in training as trying to fight, drill, bout, whatever, in a manner that first and foremost would keep you *alive* in actual combat. Disabling the other guy is secondary, and should be attempted only after the risk of damage to oneself is minimised (ie. the possiblity of a double kill is eliminated, or at least reduced as much as it can be via a disarm, cunning footwork or such). The goal should *not* be landing a hit a tenth of a second before your opponent does...

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JeffGentry
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Re: What is intent?

Postby JeffGentry » Fri Aug 06, 2004 8:53 am

Maybe that is a point of confusion for me Casper, never thought about intent in training and intention's being seperate thing's. Is food for thought.

And Rabbe i don't want to end a sword fight with a double kill, i just want to be the best, am not even close at this point but i figure why do anything half way, is why i joined the Marine's, guess it is my personality i want to aquire the skill that has not been seen in 300 year's.
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Rabbe J.O. Laine
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Re: What is intent?

Postby Rabbe J.O. Laine » Fri Aug 06, 2004 9:03 am

Jeff,

Rest assured my comment about double kills wasn't aimed at you, but rather at some fencers whose primary goal seems to be scoring points or landing that hit a fraction of a second before their opponent does, instead of learning technique that would actually help keep them alive in a "real" swordfight.

Rabbe

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JeffGentry
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Re: What is intent?

Postby JeffGentry » Fri Aug 06, 2004 10:16 am

I totaly understand that, didn't mean too sound so harsh.

My writing skill leave's much to be desired some time's thing's i type come off as harsh.
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James_Knowles
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Re: What is intent?

Postby James_Knowles » Fri Aug 06, 2004 4:40 pm

Doesn't your attitude have something to do with


I'd be so bold to say that everything is rooted in this.
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John_Clements
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Re: What is intent?

Postby John_Clements » Fri Aug 06, 2004 8:48 pm

Hi

Yes, I think having a "martial spirit" is something different but related to training with intent. It's probbaly a topic worth discussing here in itself. Does it mean a warrior mindset? Does it mean appreciation for the necessity of martial arts?
Does it mean respecting the tragedy of conflict in human history?

Thoughts anyone?

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JeffGentry
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Re: What is intent?

Postby JeffGentry » Fri Aug 06, 2004 11:19 pm

back again

in reply to.
Does it mean a warrior mindset?

I think in a certain respect you do need a warrior mindset when trianing, after all this is a martial art, if you don't "intend" to be a warrior then how can you train in the way's of war.
After all isn't that what we are doing?

reply to
Does it mean appreciation for the necessity of martial arts?

i think it does because if/when you are walking down the street and are acosted you will automaticly go to the training intent to defend yourself and react much quicker because you have been attacked with aggression in your training, If you have been in that situation before it is not an unknown experience, And fear is no longer a factor because you have trained with the intent to not get knifed or run through with a sword or thrown to the ground and now that intent will be evident and real, knowledge + skill + confidence in yourself =you not being attacked, because it is seen in the way you carry yourself.

in reply
Does it mean respecting the tragedy of conflict in human history?

that is a difficult one, because there is still alot of tragedy in the present, but it is just a fact of life i knew alot of Marine's who liked the saying "train for war and pray for peace", I for one like that saying, looking back at the time period's we are gaining our knowledge from, It was a bloody time in human history, the Spanish incusition, the hundred year war, the war of the rose's there are so many, and just the everyday ruffian's. If we look at the history, this knowledge was written in blood because some one used/didn't use these technique's to defend themselve's and was either injured or killed so in my mind, we need to have respect for the Master's and art that we are studing and the intent to use these as they are meant to be used as an art of war, Yes they may be very dated (or some would say out of date) but look at the american military alot of the bayonet training look's very similar to half swording and in the Marine Corps there NCO's still learn to drill using the NCO sword and something's i learned with the sword i am now learning where it came from, so something's from our history of sword play are still in use now, just most of us never see it and those who use it may not know where it came from, i realy think we need to respect the tragedy of human conflict in our history that gave us this art, in my mind what we are doing will some day be history, when we are seventy and our grand children ask why we have that sword on the wall won't the story we relate be history and our grandchildren may have a new respect for us.

I"ll get off the soap box's now. <img src="/forum/images/icons/grin.gif" alt="" />

i am enjoying this discussion though.
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Aaron Pynenberg
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Re: What is intent?

Postby Aaron Pynenberg » Sat Aug 07, 2004 6:14 pm

This is a good topic and It is something I often dwell on. I think that now, as in the past, warriors have always tried to train with as much likeness to comabat as possible. I think "intent" and martial spirit are diffrent but very much linked concepts. There are many ways that you can use intent to try and simulate combat. Having said that, Martial spirit is a more important factor in a fight. Martial spirit is the very essance or make-up of one's traits as an individual. Maybe, "effort" and "pride" or "presence" could all be words used to describe what I mean.

There are many times when I have seen two people square off, with very equal attributes and skill sets, but usually deap down you have a pretty good idea of who will win. It involves more than confidence, and is more important than skill. I think we all know of someone who is just a very dangerous advesary, someone who would chew thier own hand off just to strike you with it--anyone know someone like that? Aaron
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JeffGentry
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Re: What is intent?

Postby JeffGentry » Sat Aug 07, 2004 7:29 pm

i know what your saying Aaron, it is like the Special Force's or the Navy Seal's, Alot of time's in there indoctrination you could be the fast and strongest, but if they see you slacking off they will throw you out and some one may not be the fastest or strongest but training with intensity and giving all they have will succeed because if you train with the right intent, they can make you faster or stronger but they can't change you if your a quiter or a slacker it is who and what you are and only you can change that.

I bet your swat team is kind of the same way, if you go to train and are there just to screw around and look cool you won't last long, that's how people get dead, I was actualy reading an article on the ARMA site "Fencing with all your strenght..." and there is an account by "Gutierre Diaz de Gamez’s early 15th " on how they decided to chose there warrior's (John C. wrote the article), think it is worth a read to everyone in ARMA.
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