Roman Battlefield Grappling

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Mike Cartier
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Roman Battlefield Grappling

Postby Mike Cartier » Thu Aug 12, 2004 12:20 pm

An intersting thing i found on another forum, ground fighting on a battlefield? pish posh


Cassius Dio 71.7:

The Iazyges were conquered by the Romans on land at this time and later on the river. By this I do not mean that any naval battle took place, but that the Romans pursued them as they fled over the frozen Ister and fought there as on dry land. The Iazyges, perceiving that they were being pursued, awaited their opponents' onset, expecting to overcome them easily, as the others were not accustomed to the ice. Accordingly, some of the barbarians dashed straight at them, while others rode round to attack their flanks, as their horses had been trained to run safely even over a surface of this kind. The Romans upon observing this were not alarmed, but formed in a compact boy, facing all their foes at once, and most of them laid down their shields and rested one foot upon them, so that they might not slip so much; and thus they received the enemy's charge. Some seized the bridles, others the shields and spearshafts of their assailants, and drew the men toward them; and thus, becoming involved in close conflict, they knocked down both men and horses, since the barbarians by reason of their momentum could no longer keep from slipping. The Romans, to be sure, also slipped; but in case one of them fell on his back, he would drag his adversary down on top of him and then with his feet would hurl him backwards, as in a wrestling match, and so would get on top of him; and if one fell on his face, he would actually seize with his teeth his antagonist, who had fallen first. For the barbarians, being unused to a contest of this sort, and having lighter equipment, were unable to resist, so that but few escaped out of a large force.
Mike Cartier
Meyer Frei Fechter
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JeanryChandler
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Re: Roman Battlefield Grappling

Postby JeanryChandler » Thu Aug 12, 2004 3:08 pm

How come I never see stuff like this in movies like Gladiator!

DB
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Randall Pleasant
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Re: Roman Battlefield Grappling

Postby Randall Pleasant » Thu Aug 12, 2004 4:40 pm

Gives a nice context to the saying, "We'll fight to Hell freezes over and then we'll fight on the ice". <img src="/forum/images/icons/wink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forum/images/icons/laugh.gif" alt="" />
Ran Pleasant

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David Mastro
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Re: Roman Battlefield Grappling

Postby David Mastro » Tue Dec 07, 2004 9:46 am

Hi Mike,

Man, this has got to be one of the coolest references ever--it deserves to be posted on every forum.

BTW, great avatar. <img src="/forum/images/icons/wink.gif" alt="" />

Peace,

Dave/TFS
"The Turks go to war as if to a wedding"--Venetian proverb

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JeffGentry
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Re: Roman Battlefield Grappling

Postby JeffGentry » Tue Dec 07, 2004 11:54 am

Hey Mike
I saw that same thing i don't remember where, it is an interesting concept though that is how i think of war/battle even in modern day, that is, was and alway's will be the nature of war and combat i guess.

Jeff
Semper Fidelis

Usque ad Finem

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Douglas S
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Re: Roman Battlefield Grappling

Postby Douglas S » Tue Dec 07, 2004 12:36 pm

Actually this known in judo etc as a sacrifice throw or ura nage. And yes we see stuntmen do it a lot in the movies, and say "hey, that can't be authentic." <img src="/forum/images/icons/smile.gif" alt="" />

Great find.
Douglas Sunlin

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David_Knight
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Re: Roman Battlefield Grappling

Postby David_Knight » Tue Dec 07, 2004 9:42 pm

Fascinating passage, Mike.

The remark "in case one of them fell on his back, he would drag his adversary down on top of him and then with his feet would hurl him backwards, as in a wrestling match, and so would get on top of him" also provides some insight into your Pankration research. It suggests that this was a common grappling technique that the Romans were used to, as opposed to the barbarians, who were "unused to a contest of this sort."

I'll be sure to try the "seize with his teeth his antagonist" thing next time we both end up on the ground.


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