padded sparring swords - an inexpensive method

[danielcarcich]

I made a post on my blog not too long ago explaining my process for building a sparring sword, which if you build a few of them comes out to be about $2 a sword. I've done a fair amount of testing with them and they've yet to leave any bruises, even with full force hits. Here's the link to the post titled "Wakizashi - here we go again":

http://reidthoughts.blogspot.com/2004_09_05_reidthoughts_archive.html#109466812237518608

Obviously modifications could be made to the process depending on what you're looking for, as well as curving the blade and shaping the tip or whatnot. Please let me know what you think, and I apologize for the quality of the pictures I took... darned cheapy webcam

[GaryGrzybek]

Hi Daniel,

The main problems I see in your design is that the pvc core without inserting a wooden dowel is weak and probably too light. Also, the foam covering shows 4 sides but no edge. It's difficult to employ proper technique without knowing where the edges are.

Sorry to criticize, just trying to help.

[danielcarcich]

Actually I appreciate the criticism. The lack of a true edge is due to a requirement put upon me by my sparring partners (a few of them at least). They argue that to lessen the padding on two of the sides opens one up for injury with the chance that I might connect on the flat. As we are for the most part totally new to actually sparring and probably don't have the control it takes, I adhere to the requirement.

For my weapons anyway, I put a strip of black tape down the two sides that would be closest to being called an edge and use those as a visual reminder. With regard to the design itself, it'd be very easy to create an edge if one was desired.

With regard to strength, I talked to an unnamed maker of sparring swords *grin* and he suggested that if the sword wasn't more then about 48" total it didn't really need much reinforcing. I've yet to break one, though I concede that I haven't been doing this very long.

As to the weight, I don't have access to a terribly precise scale, though with what I have they weigh in at about 2-3lb. I've toyed with the idea of putting a slight bit of weight in the tip, though I'm not sure if it's neccessary considering the amount of foam that makes up the blade.

Again, I appreciate any criticism/thoughts on the design.

[Douglas S]

A while back, we tested some longsword simulators that had PVC cores. Every few hits we heard cracking sounds come from the swords. The rigidity of the blades increased gradually, as I believe the PVC broke up inside the foam.

Boffer groups are currently using fiberglass or carbon-fiber wands (used fishing poles? golf flags?) inside the foam to give the simulators the needed rigidity. Maybe that's an avenue worth pursuing.

[JeanryChandler]

Not to beat this to death but (ok sorry for the pun...)

Sch 80 PVC is about three times as strong as Sch 40 and maybe half again as heavy. It makes great cores which basically never break, and are not whippy at all though they do have some flex.

For the flats, you can get a denser but thinner foam. I use 1/8" microcell puff from ACOR but there are varieties available. When you have a well defined flat and edge I have found that striking with the flat doesn't happen often, and the dense foam protects enough if you do mistakenly do so.

I haven't yet tried shaping the cores but I think it is a great idea.

JR

[danielcarcich]

Actually just recently (this wasn't included in the writeup I made because it was since then) I figured out how to curve and flatten pvc using only boiling water... check out the thread I made "curved blade construction". It started out me asking how to do it and then I just got creative and figured out a way. It really does work quite well and is much easier than the blow-torch doing a section at a time.

In response to Douglas S... from what I've seen with other people's experiences pvc can work quite well. What diameter of pipe were you using? The usual kinda people use are 1/2" and 3/4". The former I would imagine to be way too weak and flexy to work. I'll post back here if I discover in the end that it is too weak and begins to break up. Good to know to keep an eye out for that sort of thing anyway <img src="/forum/images/icons/smile.gif" alt="" />

[Douglas S]

The longswords were the first-generation ones made by Purpleheart.

[danielcarcich]

I've noticed a weak point in the design and am wondering if anyone can help me out with any ideas.

The weakest point on the sword is the tip, where the pvc no longer runs through the foam. I'm not sure if this is due to misuse (they weren't my own personal swords... they were some I built and gave to some friends) but the tip has a tendency to rip right at the end of the pvc and break off to a side. It's easily repaired at least for a bit with some more duct tape. Personally I'd rather reinforce it from construction if possible though, any ideas?

[GaryGrzybek]

I've found one material that really helps strengthen those vulnerable areas. Try using nylon reinforced tape. It usually comes in 1" or 3/4" wide rolls and you can wrap it around various points of the blade to stop the tearing that ofter occurs. I use it around the guard area too since they often get damaged with a good hit. You can also use it to make those repairs. Just be careful not to compress the foam.

[david welch]

I got a nice dagger from JeanryChandler in New Orleans, and I don't think his would have that problem. I am thinking about mailing him a couple of pvc cores to see what we get combining the two types of padded wasters.

Remember, these are still in "R&amp;D".

[danielcarcich]

Sounds like a plan <img src="/forum/images/icons/smile.gif" alt="" /> You going to flatten the cores before you send them?

[JeanryChandler]

Speaking for Jeanry chandler, I love that idea. In fact, I'll make this suggestion, send me two cores and I'll make us each a sword from them, one for me, one for you. I just happen to have ordered a bunch of materials and I have everything on hand to make some new weapons. If we both deem it is a success, we can post a construction description to this list.

Incidentaly, what I do about the pvc tips so they don't come through the foam is wrap them first with a litle bit of that strong 1/8" dense foam, and then some gaffers tape, before I even put the sword together over it. I know of some other people here who also put the pvc pipe-caps on first.

It's also a good idea generally to make a 'thrusting tip' of the very soft open cell foam around the point of your weapon so that it has a less dangerous impact in thrusting. (This also protects the tip underneath from damage)

Jeanry

[danielcarcich]

One of my biggest problems if I don't have access to variety of different foams. I might give the ultra soft tip on the end a try with the next sword I build, assuming I can find the right kind of foam to do it with. Again, thanks for ideas

[JeanryChandler]

You can get that blue camping pad foam in sheets (rolls) at any Wal-mart for $5. Maybe a little more at just about any camping store. That is enough to make 4 or 5 swords. The blue stuff is IMO a lot better than the pink corrugated foam you were using, you can also cut it out with scissors into patterns to make pole -arm heads and axes and all kinds of things.

The really tough, thin foam I use for the flats and guards and such goes by a rather unfortunate brand name called "Microcell Puff", I order it from a company called ACOR. You can call them during regular business hours at (800) 237-2267. I order a piece sufficient to make 3 or 4 swords for about $17 incuding shipping.

I think some people posted in another thread where you can order that flotation foam which ARMA has long reccomended.

One other thing to consider about tips, as Lance Chan has corectly pointed out, you can damage them pretty easily striking the ground. This is especially true if you are sparring on a hard surface like concrete or asphalt, especially if you are learning to strike with proper follow-through. If you aren't already sparring in a grassy area you may want to look into it. <img src="/forum/images/icons/smile.gif" alt="" />


J