sword and dagger/cloak/buckler

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JeffGentry
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sword and dagger/cloak/buckler

Postby JeffGentry » Sat Oct 23, 2004 9:31 pm

Hello all

I am just wondering about something, i see alot of reference to sword and shield and it seem's most of the time people are refering to rapier and buckler, are there many text on using a cut and thrust with a dagger/buckler/cloak or is it similar enough to rapier and dagger/buckler/cloak that the technique's are pretty much the same or is there a transitional weapon that qualifies as "both".

I would like to start using another weapon in the not to distant future i am just wondering if i should go to a poleweapon/staff or another sword, i do have an interest in a thrusting weapon i just don't want to stray to far at this point.

Any thought's or source material or recomendation's, would appreciate any and all input.

Jeff
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David Kite
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Re: sword and dagger/cloak/buckler

Postby David Kite » Sun Oct 24, 2004 11:15 am

Hey, Jeff!

My next weapon to learn will be (Medieval) swords & buckler. I say Medieval because at this point I *think* there are subtle yet major differences in the usage of Medieval and Rennaisance swords. Of course the major reason for this is my next sword will be Albion's Museum Line "Solingen" which seems like it will be perfect for S&B work! Besides that there seems to be plenty of material out there so there's bound to be something I can interpret practicably (sp?) on my own.

That said, I have done some work with rapier (the thrust-only kind; what we consider the "true" rapier) before, but being almost exclusively a solo practitioner I found it a very difficult weapon to gain any real proficiency with. It seems to be mostly about counter-timing more than anything, which is something you can't learn solo so I've dropped the weapon temporarily. However, you have a steady group, so you may have greater success than me. One of the biggest problems for me was that I also couldn't understand the manuals very well. Even the ones in English were very difficult for me.

If you're interested in learning (Rennaisance) sword and dagger/buckler/cloak, which I think would be quite different than rapier work, there are also several manuals to look in to. Di Grassi is a manual I know covers just about everything. The English translation is in the ARMARIA, and when I read it, I noticed it mostly boiled down to a handful of simple techniques (principles I guess) common in all weapons. He does utilize cuts, but he's a real fan of thrusting, so he may be a good one to study if you plan on branching into rapier later on. Another goodie is Silver, whose wording can get pretty thick at times, and Swetnam, who I know deals with swords, but I forget off-hand if he works with bucklers at all.

Hope this helps.

David Kite
ARMA in IN

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Brian Hunt
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Re: sword and dagger/cloak/buckler

Postby Brian Hunt » Sun Oct 24, 2004 1:15 pm

If you are interested in sword and buckler, the I.33 is the best sword and buckler manual we have. It is full of good principals for fighting s&b and Jeffery Forgeng's translation can be purchased from several different places including Amazon. You might want to read the s&b articles here on ARMA's web site, especially the one by Keith Meyers on Lichtenaur's s&b sytem, and the one by Jeffery Hull on Martin Siber's s&b.

hope this helps.

Brian Hunt
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JeffGentry
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Re: sword and dagger/cloak/buckler

Postby JeffGentry » Sun Oct 24, 2004 1:35 pm

Hey David, Brian

My next weapon to learn will be (Medieval) swords & buckler. I say Medieval because at this point I *think* there are subtle yet major differences in the usage of Medieval and Rennaisance swords


Taht is what i was wondering, i didn't know whether the text that was available was sword or rapier it just generaly seemed most went go to rapier and i want to kind of go slow, as soon as JC send's me the return stuff on my membership i'll be all over the member's area.

I did look at I33 and thought that was a sword not a rapier i just wasn't sure and i know Meyer has what appear's to be sword picture's that he titled rapier, sonetime's it is confusing as to what constitutes a rapier vs a sword, the whole classification thing that we like and wasn't used in the old day's.


Jeff
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Tony_Indurante
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Re: sword and dagger/cloak/buckler

Postby Tony_Indurante » Sun Oct 24, 2004 5:21 pm

I did look at I33 and thought that was a sword not a rapier i just wasn't sure and i know Meyer has what appear's to be sword picture's that he titled rapier, sonetime's it is confusing as to what constitutes a rapier vs a sword, the whole classification thing that we like and wasn't used in the old day's.


I.33 is definitely an arming sword and the sword in Meyer looks like a single handed version of the feder sword (i hope that is the correct term for it) in the long sword section. Di Grassi is using a slim cut and thrust type of weapon. Marrozzo appears to be using the same type of weapon in his manual (which is currently untranslated to my knowledge, and has a sword and buckler section).
Anthony Indurante

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Brian Hunt
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Re: sword and dagger/cloak/buckler

Postby Brian Hunt » Sun Oct 24, 2004 6:28 pm

William Wilson of the Tattershall school of defense has a translation of Marozzo up on the web. Don't remember the url off the top of my head though . . . try google, that is how I orginally found it.

Brian Hunt
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JeffGentry
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Re: sword and dagger/cloak/buckler

Postby JeffGentry » Fri Oct 29, 2004 9:58 am

Hey Folk's

I have borrowed Jaron's(one of the Columbus group guy's) NSA arming sword waster is that close enough to use for sword and dagger i have a wooden waster dagger(made from a broken waster), i have JC Renassiance swordsmanship book, have not delved into yet though, just a cursory look, i like the cloak stuff.

Jeff
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Tony_Indurante
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Re: sword and dagger/cloak/buckler

Postby Tony_Indurante » Fri Oct 29, 2004 1:21 pm

As far as I could tell, its a very abbreviated translation of a very large text. As far as I know, no one has done a complete translation.
Anthony Indurante


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