Defending Myself

[Jaron Bernstein]

Physical fitness in general (the dreaded "F" word) is fine, but it must be translatable into something you can use on another human being. The value in the Krav Maga is not just simplicity of the techniques, but that you train them in class on live people with intensity where other arts aren't always like that.

I would add one thing to your workout routine. Get a punching bag. Learn how to throw a basic punch, kick, knee and elbow. Set an egg timer for 2 minutes and then go 100% effort on the bag with all the above strikes until the timer goes off. If you aren't exhausted at the end of the drill, you are doing it wrong. That helps out with the lungs, but more importantly lets you transfer from general fitness to fighting.

[Quinn Wilson]

While I know you shouldn't use movies as a basis, the style I use could probably compared with Indiana Jones. It's like boxing, but a bit more anything goes, with grapples, elbows and knees. I'm not very good with kicks though, whish is one of the reasons I don't practice eastern styles. Basically, this is what works best for me individually, so what you do shouuld really be based off of your strenghts and weaknesses.
And the code of chivalry is a complicated matter. While we can give suggestions for styles, that might be somthing you really have to decide for yourself.

[SzabolcsWaldmann]

Hi,


http://www.nononsenseselfdefense.com

Here you can read some great thoughts about self-defense. For example, where it begins and where it ends! It's a great page, helping to wind aside the coulds from somebodys minds and eyes for the subject.
IMHO the best selfdefense is still not going where trouble goes and to run. Really fast.


Szabolcs

[Jaron Bernstein]

"While I know you shouldn't use movies as a basis, the style I use could probably compared with Indiana Jones."

Ugh! <img src="/forum/images/icons/tongue.gif" alt="" />

Not a very good example. For brawling take a look at Good Will Hunting or even Goodfellas. Not "martial arts" films by any stretch, but look at the psychology and intent of the fights and physical abuse in those films. That shows a better glimpse of yer average street brawler.

" It's like boxing, but a bit more anything goes, with grapples, elbows and knees. I'm not very good with kicks though, whish is one of the reasons I don't practice eastern styles."


You don't need elaborate kicks. Learn the front snap kick to the groin and the front stomp kick to anywhere below the waist. Both of which are RMA techniques. Practice them on a bag with intent and power. Get a partner if you can and chase him around trying to use them.

" Basically, this is what works best for me individually, so what you do shouuld really be based off of your strenghts and weaknesses."

True enough.

"And the code of chivalry is a complicated matter. While we can give suggestions for styles, that might be somthing you really have to decide for yourself."

What does chivalry have to do with this? From my understanding or RMA at least, it is about fighting effectively and well. If want ethics, laws and morals for your fighting...then consult your clergy, your conscience and/or a lawyer <img src="/forum/images/icons/grin.gif" alt="" />

[Andrew Kesterson]

First off, I'll get this out of the way - when it comes to modern applicable hand-to-hand martial arts, I study (or at least used to) Ninjutsu - Tenchijin Dojo, Kamiyama Dojo. Judo is a sport, not a fighting art. Using it on the street will [most likely] get you killed. Karate isn't a whole lot better, at least in most of the dojangs I have been to. Their "killing" roots have been lost. And I'm not going to dip my fingers into that can of worms any further. I don't know anything about krav maga or tai chi or anything else, so I can't comment.

As for the subject in general, what you really need to do is keep yourself out of harm's way. "Best way block punch, no be there". However, as we all know, this is not always 100% possible.

So if what you want is to know how to defend yourself against an unarmed street attacker in some dark alleyway, go prostrate yourself before someone who has been and done; an accomplished bouncer, or someone that spent a *long* and violent period in prison. Many fifth dan, mennkyo kaiden, etc in other martial arts don't know a single thing about how to fight - because they've never actually been in one. So base your teacher on the teacher's accomplishments, not on their art (at least not any further than which art identifies with your body). Hell, take every friday night, get all your friends together, and just endeavor to beat the living hell out of one another - in earnest. You will learn more about "how to fight" in one night of this, than you will in a year of most martial arts.

If you want to learn how to defend yourself against an armed attacker, I have one piece of advice: Buy a gun, and learn to use it. Nowadays, if you want to have the advantage on the battlefield, you get the biggest most accurate and most powerful gun you can carry. If I could, I would walk around with an M4A3 with a couple hundred rounds - but most of us have to be content to limit ourselves to a handgun.

Just remember what Sun Tzu said; the highest form of generalship is to balk the enemy's plans without either side losing a single man, or even engaging in battle. So whenever you hear that cry for help, think about the situation for a second before you throw yourself into the fray; it may not be the best way.




....

Now, that said ... If the time comes that the screams find you, and the spirit inside of you says "Wake up - it's time to fight"... Then slap leather, and let the led do your talking. Sometimes it's inevitable.

[M Wallgren]

If you want to learn how to defend yourself against an armed attacker, I have one piece of advice: Buy a gun, and learn to use it. Nowadays, if you want to have the advantage on the battlefield, you get the biggest most accurate and most powerful gun you can carry. If I could, I would walk around with an M4A3 with a couple hundred rounds - but most of us have to be content to limit ourselves to a handgun.

Well, that´s good and all if it weren´t for the little thing called laws. Here in Sweden you must be a licenst hunter or part of the "Home defence", something close to the National Guard in the millitary to even have a gun in your home. And it´s restricted, only huntingrifles.

Sorry a little bit of topic!

But interessting because here it´s not so likley you will end up at the wrong end of a gun. knifes and other closecombat weapons are much more common.

[Andrew Kesterson]

To be honest, even here in the states it's unlikely that you'll be on the wrong end of a gun; but the point is that if you want to have the superior weapon in a streetfight, assuming you can legally own one, a handgun (or something even bigger) is the way to go. In my opinion at least. (And in case anyone's wondering, even here in the states carrying a pistol isn't as simple as it used to be - it's letting up though, slowly.)

Beyond the gun, I'd say the extendible baton is a pretty good choice. You can knock the living hell out of somebody with one, and face little or no repercussions (assuming you were in the legal right to defend yourself) because there's no serious permanent damage done.

Of course, as I said in my first post, not getting into trouble is the absolute best way.

[Mike Chidester]

Heh, as Stew says, "Rule # 1: Always bring a gun to a knife fight."

Me, I often carry some type of decently-long umbrella with a metal spike on the end (though the one I have right now is crap). It's very nice for half-swording, and could even be used as a one-handed thrusting weapon should circumstances require it (though the balance is less than ideal).

[Andrew Kesterson]

Why not just carry an actual cane, Mike? It'd be alot stronger, and people wouldn't give you wierd looks for carrying an umbrella when it's sunny. They'd just assume you were pimpin'. <img src="/forum/images/icons/grin.gif" alt="" />

[Gene Tausk]

OK., this thread is starting to get off-topic. If we cannot discuss unarmed combat and how it relates to Renn MA, then we are losing our purpose.

The original post was valid, but we have strayed away.

I'll be keeping my eye on this thread and if no one has anything further to add that is on-topic, let's just close it down or communicate privately with emails.


----------------&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;gene tausk
SFS
Director - ARMA Southside Houston Study Group
Forum monitor

[JeffGentry]

They'd just assume you were pimpin'.

Pimp daddy Mike I like it. lol <img src="/forum/images/icons/grin.gif" alt="" />

Jeff

[david welch]

I submit this as valid WMA. <img src="/forum/images/icons/smile.gif" alt="" />

Learn edge of hand, palm jab, elbows, and low line kicks. Learn the hip throw, and osoto-gari. These are all found in the fight books, and were the basis of the W.W.II combatatives taught to commandos and soldiers. You can find good training in this online in any of the W.W.II manuals, "get tough", "kill or get killed", etc.

You can get a good grasp on the basics of this stuff, and be proficient in it in a weekend.

Remember, while you can get something out of the eastern martial arts, they are designed to teach you in small bites at a slow pace. The goal is not to make fighters, but to keep students coming back and paying over a long period of time. Also, there are cultural factors involved from where they originate that tend to want to keep the master the master and the student the student.

The biggest thing for self defense though is mindset.

If you train for that, you can defend yourself with whatever. Here is a good article on mindset training by Carl Cestari that might help. It has been mildly edited for language.

Productive training SHOULD be done DAILY.

For many reasons this may very well have to be "solo" training. It's difficult to imagine that many indivuals will have the time and opportunity to engage in multiple partner training on a daily basis, at least for those living in the "real" world. Still, EXCELLENT and productive combatives training can be had ALONE if a little inventiveness and desire is present.

The ability to reproduce very closely the elements of the adrenal "dump" can be done very effectively in solo training. I will GRANT that the following is NOT for everybody.

Any of the various lifelike striking dummies can be used, and even a good heavybag will suffice, BUT using a bit of imagination and a modicum of ability with tools, it's really an excellent idea to build your own "Frankenstein's Monster".

Make it BIG, and IMPOSING and build it to take a BRUTAL BEATING.

With a bit of thought you can make Monsterman very, very realistic.

The one I built is big and nasty and I have it attached to a full size tree trunk that is in my basement. The tree trunk is huge and goes from floor to joists. It is wrapped in heavy duty fire hose and is GREAT for "chest smashing, shoulder butting, and ELBOWS". Though ANY blows can be praticed and toughened.

To use your dummy in replicating the adrenaline stress drills you should consider the following:

Low light - a simple way to do this is to buy a portable work lamp at Home Depot and use a red bulb. This can be hung anywhere in the training area and eliminatesa changing any bulbs in your standard lighting. Be INVENTIVE. Where you place this light will give different effects. Basically, make it as CREEPY and uneasy as possible.

Terrain - Another simple one. Just strewn the floor with JUNK. Old pipes, 2x4 blocks, bricks, old golf balls(very interesting), ANYTHING that will "screw up" your "perfect" footwork.

NOW............Go thru an extremely INTENSIVE physical drill for a couple of HELLISH minutes. PUSH YOURSELF to the LIMIT. Back to back push-ups, free squats, dips(use chairs if you don't have dip bars), chins, pull-ups(same deal with the chairs and a broomstick-NO EXCUSES), high knee in place sprints, mountain climbers, etc.

HARD FAST NON-STOP until your chest is heaving and your arms and legs are LIKE JELLO!

IMMEDIATELY set a "timer", an egg timer is GREAT for two to three minutes. VISUALIZE your worst enemy or someone that YOU would LOVE to BEAT THE LIVING S#^T out of(no problem for me) and let that RAGE, ANGER, HATRED and COMPLETE LUST FOR TOTAL DESTRUCTION just EXPLODE out of you and ATTACK your MONSTERMAN with all the ferocious ruthless brutality YOU CAN MUSTER. And DO THIS while feeling absolutely PHYSICALLY DRAINED and having TO FORCE yourself to GO THE TIMED DISTANCE without even a SECONDS let-up!

NOT ENOUGH? Wear a heavy weight vest, and heavy ankle weights!
Attach rubber tubing to the far wall and tie it off around your waist at a DISTANCE that is SEVERAL feet SHORT of the dummy. NOW fight that resistance to stay within BATTERING RANGE - NOT FUN!

WEAR BOOTS! Get hold of a pair of lead SAP gloves for "TRAINING". These will add enough weight to your hands that YOU'LL want to RIP off your arms when your "timed" out.

Practice tying off an arm! Replicating INJURY. HEAVILY WEIGHT JUST ONE LEG! Get an eye-patch from Walgreen's and replicate even more REDUCED visibility.

I KNOW one "crazy b%&amp;^$#d" who even hits himself with a STUN GUN just prior to his attack training and then FIGHTS thru that! Even used pepper-spray on "himself". He used to bash himself in the jaw with a lump hammer to replicate a semi-conciouss state and then force himself to fight thru that. Hit himself a bit too HARD one time and was found laid out by his wife. VERY EMBARASSING!

DON'T GET OVERLY "TECHNIQUE" ORIENTED! This is NOT training for "skill" development. This is training for PURE BLOOD &amp; GUTS - TOOTH &amp; CLAW GUTTERFIGHTING!

This type of training WILL KNOCK the S#^T out of you! It will also TEACH you alot about yourself and if done with the RIGHT MIND-SET will "change" your WHOLE attitude.

It also "answers" many questions about "things" like "aliveness", the "need" for "sparring", "flow drills", and WHY in the REAL LIFE MEATGRINDER of SURVIVAL it really DOES just boil down to KILL OR BE KILLED!

This "type" of training will transform the ADRENAL STRESS factor from one of "fear" to FEROCITY!

Similar type of "drills" can be used for edged weapons, impact weapons and "airsoft" training.

Expect AND ACCEPT that this training will cause some injury and MOST definitely PAIN. But, certainly FAR less than you would suffer at the hands of a murdereous pack of jackals!

It's also going to make you one TOUGH AS NAILS HARD BARKED B^$*^#D in a real throw down!

If anyone is interested in some more ideas about variations in this type of training, just ask.

CC

[Andrew Kesterson]

Remember, while you can get something out of the eastern martial arts, they are designed to teach you in small bites at a slow pace. The goal is not to make fighters, but to keep students coming back and paying over a long period of time. Also, there are cultural factors involved from where they originate that tend to want to keep the master the master and the student the student.

Not to be confrontational or go off topic, but I'd really like to know where you get those opinions. Because, from my experience in eastern martial arts, they are patently false. All of my teachers have wanted nothing more than to see their students excel and become competent, regardless of dojo dues; and any true master will know that he learns as much from the students as they do from him, thereby voiding the "keep the master the master" argument. You must've had some encounters with some serious ego freaks.

As far as the adrenaline drill discussed, that's all well and good, assuming your technique is good beforehand. Obviously this will not work if all you do (effectively) is slapfight against the target. Just like training with the Sword, you have to get the technique down first, then go for power and speed.

With that said, yeah the US Army's combatives manual is based (very loosely) on many forms of eastern martial arts - some judo, some karate, some taijutsu. So pick it up, it's available in the bookstore or online. My instructor in basic put it aptly when he said - "Men, this'll work against some drunken russian soldier; but if you go up against some pajama wearin kung fu f***er, just shoot the b****rd." And Dave's right, you can pick this stuff up over a weekend or two, it's braindead simple. Repeated and continued proper training and mindset, though, are indeed the key to being effective.


Proper Prior Preparation Prevents Piss Poor Performance

[david welch]

but I'd really like to know where you get those opinions

That is what developed in the west out of EMA. In the east, you were not really meant to master the arts, in post... say 1880 EMA. In the west, we had Christianity as our religion and the fighting arts as out fighting arts. In the east, their fighting arts were their religion.

When we developed out of the WMA, we still have our means of spiritual developement. When that happened in the east, they had to develope their fighting arts into a means of spiritual fulfillment. They took out most of the combat elements, and turned it into a lifelong path of study... a "way". The crime is that in the west, they are taught as a means of combat or self defense, instead of their rightful role.

That is the reason that in the days of people like Masutatsu Oyama, in Japan out of 1000 people that studied their whole life maybe 4 would become a blackbelt before they died. Here we have 10 year olds that are 4th dan. You really think it is not about the money?

With that said, yeah the US Army's combatives manual is based...

Wrong ones. try looking at the ones here that teach real combatatives instead of BBJ.

http://www.get-tough.net/combat/manuals.html

[Jake_Norwood]

Only level one Army Combatives is based on Eastern stuff. Level Two is wrestling and boxing, and level three includes, amongst other things, stuff right out of the ARMA.

Jake
(Level One Combatives Instructor)