Arm break then drag, MMA video

[JeffGentry]

At 2:01 there is a nice spin out of the over/under clinch and one guy get's his elbow broke and is then drug to the ground by the same arm.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_718dOW09k

This remind's me of many technique's described in our manual's.

Jeff

[Eric Dohner]

Ouch! I wonder if the break was deliberate, or if it was simply intended as a drag down to the ground.

[LynGrey]

it didn't seem like it was 100% deliberate. Its a technique where something bad can happen if your oppenent is completly unsuspecting.. and I believe Keith wasn't expecting his arm to get trapped... why he kept moving forward and not to the inside.

[mike willus]

I dont think that was 100% deliberate. You could prbably do the same thing 50 more times and never have it happen again. I think it was just a really sharp and explosive spin, with the outside possibility of the arm break being present.


You've got to be very very explosive to pull this off, and you need to get just the right part of the arm...but, man was that aewsome.

[LynGrey]

it wasn't awesome to the guy it happened to.... but its an occupational hazard... Trust me.. i've had MCL damage, disolcated finger, bruised ribs, and many other damaging things happen to me. Usally when i get hurt.. i usally high five or shake hands with the guy..and ask how he did it.. and all. Usally if you ask you here "i was expecting you to do this...."

[JeffGentry]

I think breaking the elbow was accidental, it is a good illustration of how explosive it should be done, we see many example's of similar thing's in manual's and if we were to do them ballisticly i think this would be the result.

Surprise is a big element of making any technique work.

Jeff

[LynGrey]

I
Surprise is a big element of making any technique work.

Goes right in hand in hand with the phrase i hear eveyrbody say "Its the punch(anything you want) that you don't know is coming that knocks you out!"

[Jaron Bernstein]

I have practiced that very technique slowly as a joint lock/compliance move with a partner. I guess it works fast as well.

[JeffGentry]

I
Surprise is a big element of making any technique work.

Goes right in hand in hand with the phrase i hear eveyrbody say "Its the punch(anything you want) that you don't know is coming that knocks you out!"

That is absolutley true.

When the elbow broke he had no real way to defend the takedown, It would have been over in short order if there were no referee to stop the fight.

I have practiced that very technique slowly as a joint lock/compliance move with a partner. I guess it works fast as well.

Yes we have.


Jeff

[Kyro_Lantsberger]

Ive seen this video around as well. I dont think it was intentional, may have been trying to do whizzer or set up kimura/uri garami type throw.

Still, does go to show that although MMA and ring sports have developed a core of very good techniques for clinch work, there are still these other dangerous and damaging alternatives from that same range.

Imagine the same situation with a lesser athlete or untrained fighter. It should be noted that "rough" Aikido/jujitsu, or Ringen type attacks are very, very useful and can be done against resistance from these situations.

[philippewillaume]

hello,
I am relatively confident that this is one of the arm breaks (from ringeck) though of course it does not start from the same position in the manual but well.

I do not think that the break was intentional.
One of the poster wondered why the guy went for ward and not to the side.
I believe that he could not do anything but go forward. Going on the side probably put the technique on him more, If you see what I mean. In a way that is why the elbow broke because from the start all was there to make the break happen.
This is a basis of the throw in aikido, (rough aikido if you want), you put the “break” on enough to have compliance (pain and or just the way the body works) and control so you can throw but not break

Aikido/ju-jitsu and ringen are just a way to make the break happens all the time. (ie grabbing in such way that we arm more likely to break than obtain the result we are looking for in MMA.

phil

[Jay Vail]

At 2:01 there is a nice spin out of the over/under clinch and one guy get's his elbow broke and is then drug to the ground by the same arm.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_718dOW09k

This remind's me of many technique's described in our manual's.

Jeff

This was an excellent example of the technique I called the armpit trap, or armpit pit lock. See Medieval and Renaissance Dagger Combat pp. 77-78. In judo it is known as waki gatamae. In this instance, however, it is applied more like the technique known as hara gatamae, which locks the elbow against the side or stomach rather than the armpit per se. This is a technique, BTW, also known to the ancient Greeks and is often illustrated on vase paintings and in sculpture.

As you can see it is highly effective and if dropped on your opponent hard it can result in serious injury.

[Mike Cartier]

I think its similar to this technique in Meyer
Upper left hand corner.

http://www.higginssword.org/guild/study/manuals/meyer_illustrations/meyer_dagger_f.jpg

[JeffGentry]

I think its similar to this technique in Meyer
Upper left hand corner.

http://www.higginssword.org/guild/study/manuals/meyer_illustrations/meyer_dagger_f.jpg

It is very similar.

Jeff

[Jay Vail]

I think its similar to this technique in Meyer
Upper left hand corner.

http://www.higginssword.org/guild/study/manuals/meyer_illustrations/meyer_dagger_f.jpg

Respectfully, I must disagree. They are not the same. The technique in the video is clearly hara/waki gatamae. Run the video through and pause it just as the victor applies the technique. You can clearly see this is hara/waki.

The technique in the Meyer plate is an overbind. The body dynamics and results of the two techniques are different.

On hara/waki, you are on the outside line. From this position is is very easy to cause serious harm to your opponent, a fact clearly illustrated by the video, because you leverage the elbow by grasping the wrist and pulling upward.

In the Meyer technique you are on the side line. The result is an overbind, which allows you to put pressue on the elbow, but generally not enough, even when you spin around (a technique in catch wrestling called a whizzer and shown in Talhoffer 1443 and 1467) to damage the joint. The technique is more frequently used as an arm control and to assist in a throw.

So, they are distinct applications and should not be confused.