Escape from Guillotine choke

[carlo arellano]

Pull out your knife and cut through his femoral artery. He will go out before you do, especially if you can tuck or anything else that keeps him from sinking it right off the bat.

If you can't reach his groin, cut through the elbow joint.

A drunken young man did just that to a NY bouncer 2 years ago, doctors could do nothing to save the bouncer. I know it was tongue and cheek advice but still that is some serious stuff.

[Stewart Sackett]

I agree that, taken as humor, David’s statement is rather macabre for my taste. But, if you replace the word “cut” in his statement with the words “stab with your rondel dagger” then David’s post is quite valuable to the discussion of historic techniques & serves to illustrate one of the reasons the masters didn’t seem to spend much time on choke holds.

Chokes, while highly effective, are not instantaneous in their effect & leave the choker vulnerable to being stabbed.

[david welch]

There was no "humor" in my post at all, nor was it tongue in cheek. If I was ever assaulted and put in a headlock, to the best of my ability this is exactly what is happening to my assailant. This is just good self defense. It was short because a lot of the "good stuff" really is just that simple. It is the will to do it that is hard at first.

[JeffGentry]

There was no "humor" in my post at all, nor was it tongue in cheek. If I was ever assaulted and put in a headlock, to the best of my ability this is exactly what is happening to my assailant. This is just good self defense. It was short because a lot of the "good stuff" really is just that simple. It is the will to do it that is hard at first.

Hey David

The will is what get's most people, the panic reaction take's over and all thought except breathimg goes out the window.

I almost tapped to a choke last summer in a competition and realized he wasn't locked in completely, it hurt my throat, I had all the time I needed to escape and ended up tapping him, I was on the verge of panic I even raised my hand to tap before reliazing I could breathe.


Jeff

[Stewart Sackett]

There was no "humor" in my post at all, nor was it tongue in cheek. If I was ever assaulted and put in a headlock, to the best of my ability this is exactly what is happening to my assailant. This is just good self defense. It was short because a lot of the "good stuff" really is just that simple. It is the will to do it that is hard at first.

I can understand using lethal force in self-defense against a choke, although I’d be more inclined to turn to some tactic more legally defensible then a knife. While there’s nothing wrong with knowing how to counter an attack by the application of a weapon it is also sensible to develop the ability to defend yourself while unarmed (in case you forget your knife one day, or are disarmed, or someone tries to choke you in the shower ).

Now as to stabbing someone who’s applying a standard headlock: The headlock is an untutored & ultimately pointless technique that (in it’s standing form) really shouldn’t be a threat to anyone. As such it is wholly inappropriate to use lethal force in response to such an attack.

It is possible to posses the will to act & the skill to dominate & also have the composure necessary to choose to act with restraint.

[david welch]

I can understand using lethal force in self-defense against a choke, although I’d be more inclined to turn to some tactic more legally defensible then a knife. While there’s nothing wrong with knowing how to counter an attack by the application of a weapon it is also sensible to develop the ability to defend yourself while unarmed (in case you forget your knife one day, or are disarmed, or someone tries to choke you in the shower ).

Now as to stabbing someone who’s applying a standard headlock: The headlock is an untutored & ultimately pointless technique that (in it’s standing form) really shouldn’t be a threat to anyone. As such it is wholly inappropriate to use lethal force in response to such an attack.

It is possible to posses the will to act & the skill to dominate & also have the composure necessary to choose to act with restraint.

How you chose to respond to an assault is your business. Here are a few things for people to think about.

The standard for the use of lethal force is the other guy has to be a real threat. To do that, he has to have three things... he has to have the intent to harm you, the ability to harm you, and the opportunity to harm you.

If I am across the street with a ball bat and tell you I am going to come over and kill you, but just stand there I have told you I have the intent, and with the bat I have the ability. But until I close on you I don't have the opportunity at the moment so you can't just shoot me. If I have a shotgun instead of a bat, things are quite a bit different.

All that said, courts have found that having someone by the neck is using lethal force. So you would be justified in defending yourself with the use of lethal force.

Once you are in the realm of "lethal force", while I realize that some places are ran by idiots, I don't care if the lethal force is by a "hard to justify knife", a gun, or a lethal ringen move.

I also would like to point out that I don't believe we are talking about how to handle a drunk uncle at a party here either, but just in case somebody thinks we are, I'm not.

Really now though. How often do you think the response to an assault it too aggressive? Is that a big problem? It seems to me the trouble is getting people to decide to fight back at all. Shoot, there are posts in this forum, where the problem is how to get people to respond aggressively. With foam swords.

On to the will part. I am old. I don't "fight" for fun. A "bar fight" isn't how I go out to entertain myself. I don't want to get into a fight. If someone is trying to fight, I am going to do everything in my power to keep it from happening and defuse the situation.

BUT once someone has forced a fight on me, and once I realize there is nothing I can do to keep it from happening and the other person has set off one of my predetermined "triggers", all evidence shows the most reliable way to survive an assault is to be the firstest with the mostest. So once I find the assault is unavoidable, I would suggest to everyone the best response is to hit them with the absolute maximum you can muster. Shoot them, stab them, or try and beat them to death with a telephone. And try to do it first.

Unfortunately, most assaults are going to be ambush assaults. You will never know it is coming. You will find out by being hit, shot, stabbed or grabbed by the neck. The answer to that is the most violent immediate counter attack you can bring to bare on them.

Once you have decided that is your response, then you can choose to act with restraint if you need to.

If you can respond with strength and chose not to, that is gentleness. If you respond without strength because you can't respond with strength, that isn't gentleness or kindness... that's being a wussy.

Lastly, it is good to be able to respond without weapons. That said... if someone comes up behind you in Wally World parking lot, or a medieval alley, and slams in a deep choke from behind and with surprise, unless you can go to a weapon things probably are not going to work out good for you no matter what sort of "unarmed", kinder gentler with restraint training you practice.

Of course, this is just what some of the best trainers in America have told me. They could be wrong.

[LynGrey]

well as far as unarmed defense goes...

If standing place your closest hand right above his knee on his thigh. If he sprawls out on you just do a inside sit-through. If he falls back and wraps you in guard or half guard take your out side arm and slide it down his back from over his shoulder and press your butt up as high as you can and turn on him.... The shoulder pressure in his neck will choke him also, let alone the roating will crank him, and just wiggle you're leg out to get cross side on him.