Codex Wallerstein

[Kirk Preston]

Ok so ive just received a copy of "Codex Wallerstein" in the mail, the description of several of the plates appears to be inaccurate, several of these positions are still used frequently today in CACC and freestyle wrestling although it doesnt appear the author is familiar with the techniques

Edit: Ok is this translated from the original text or is this a modern interpretation because the description seems very vague, I dont know if this is because elements have been lost in translation

[Sal Bertucci]

My understanding is that it is a translation from the original text. Not all WMA authors are equal.

[Kirk Preston]

I wonder if the annotation was done after the fact or if a non trained writer was merely guessing at what was happening in some of the positions while trained fighters sparred ?

[Sal Bertucci]

Don't think so b/c many of the text is extremely similar to what we see in Durer's sketch book.

Sal

[Corey Roberts]

Codex Wallerstein gives you the actual plate with the original image and handwritten text on the right. It then gives you a direct transcription of the handwritten text at the top of each page, followed by a translation into modern German beneath that. Under the translation to modern German is a translation into Modern English. The authors do not use the Catch wrestling terminology because that is not what the text says. Many of the techniques may very well be entirely analogous to CACC moves but unless the Medieval authors called it a "chicken wing" or a "sleeper hold" you won't be finding references to Catch terminology in CW since it is merely a translation of what is actually written in the book. The Medieval and Renaissance writers had their own terminology to describe the techniques and that is what is used in the English text of the book.
As to whether or not Bart or Gregorz were familiar with Catch terminology I have no idea, but what they have produced is a very good reference work for what the CW text actually says.

[RayMcCullough]

What plates do you think are inaccurate?

[Kirk Preston]

ok i think i might have gave you the wrong understanding about the description of the names, i understand that the name of the move may be different but there are several moves which are described as joint locks and infact they are not joint locks at all and simply wouldnt work however they can be used as transitional moves

[Corey Roberts]

Can you provide reference to the CW plates you feel are not joint locks which are described as such? Without specific references I don't know which plates you are referring to. Thanks.