Techniques for unarmed Combat

[david welch]

I got this from another list I lurk at. If you are practiceing H2H for combat, keep these techniques in mind... this is a TO DO LIST if you are fighting for real.

"UFC Rules

I find the official UFC rules make a good list of techniques to practice for street survival:

Fouls:
Butting with the head.
Eye gouging of any kind.
Biting.
Hair pulling.
Fish hooking.
Groin attacks of any kind.
Putting a finger into any orifice or into any cut or laceration on an opponent.
Small joint manipulation.
Striking to the spine or the back of the head.
Striking downward using the point of the elbow.
Throat strikes of any kind, including, without limitation, grabbing the trachea.
Clawing, pinching or twisting the flesh.
Grabbing the clavicle.
Kicking the head of a grounded opponent.
Kneeing the head of a grounded opponent.
Stomping a grounded opponent.
Kicking to the kidney with the heel.
Spiking an opponent to the canvas on his head or neck.
Throwing an opponent out of the ring or fenced area.
Holding the shorts or gloves of an opponent.
Spitting at an opponent.
Engaging in an unsportsmanlike conduct that causes an injury to an opponent.
Holding the ropes or the fence.
Using abusive language in the ring or fenced area.
Attacking an opponent on or during the break.
Attacking an opponent who is under the care of the referee.
Attacking an opponent after the bell has sounded the end of the period of unarmed combat.
Flagrantly disregarding the instructions of the referee.
Timidity, including, without limitation, avoiding contact with an opponent, intentionally or consistently dropping the mouthpiece or faking an injury.
Interference by the corner.
Throwing in the towel during competition."

You may not want to really do these to your practice partner, but a least keep in mind that if it was for real, they would be doing them to you. <img src="http://www.thearma.org/forum/images/icons/smile.gif" alt="" />

[Brian Hunt]

David,

Good Points. I also notice how much these rules are set up to help a grappler win in the UFC environment. Most of the things on there are the things I would try to do to get a grappler off of me, and to regain and win a fight. Hmmmm.

Just my 2 cents worth

Brian Hunt.

[Shane Smith]

I agree gentlemen. In real life,there is no Ref and the other guy is free to gouge out your eyeballs and grab or bite your testicles with impunity <img src="http://www.thearma.org/forum/images/icons/shocked.gif" alt="" />...Don't be surprised,it happens.

[Randall Pleasant]

These were also addressed by Matt Larson in his class on ground fighting at the International Event. Matt made clear that you either had to keep you face out of range, such as when sitting on an adversary, or keep your head tucked down, such as when performing the Americana arm lock or the Mata Leao choke hold.

[Jay Vail]

I also notice how much these rules are set up to help a grappler win in the UFC environment. Most of the things on there are the things I would try to do to get a grappler off of me, and to regain and win a fight.

Toooo right. No small joint manipulation? No grabbing the throat? No use of the elbow? No eye gouges? The spoil sports. No wonder the competitions so tame and those BJJ guys win so often.

[Mike Cartier]

Actually the UFC rules clearly favor the ground and pound athletic wrestler types. Although some of the stuff prohibited would also help them alot (like headbutting on ground).

If you look at pride rules they tend to be better for the BJJ types.

eye gouging, fishhooking, throat ripping, ear eating, nostril splitting and all that other good stuff is not the fight finisher it alwasy appears to be.
For starters people are alot touhger than we want to admit sometimes, paoin is not always the deterrent it should be.
All these dirty tactics are as easily employed by a grappler, in fact for the close quarter dirty tactics the grappler is at a distinct advantage with dirty tactics.

i hear the what about if i bite you stuff all the time, well if i am on your back putting on the rear naked choke and you bite me.
not only will it not get me off you back you will have seriously upped the stakes in a combat situation with someone in a position to literally snuff your existence out.
There is a time to fight and a time to negotiate, when someone is on your back sinking in a artery choke you either know how to gain leverage to escape or you flail around in futility until you pass out or tap.

the true measure of mixed martial arts fighting is the vale tudo rules. Rounds are an arttificial construct that deviates from what happens in reality. No rounds in a fight favors the ground fighter, it can allow them to tear down your defense as you tire from constantly attacking them. Wrestlers often do this when fighting BJJ guys, then when the wrestler spends himself he gets sloppy in his submission defenses.

I think the main reason they take out throat claws and eye attacks is not becasue they would be killing each other with them in the UFC but that it looks particularly nasty and brutal when 2 guys are tearing at each others faces like wild animals and these attacks tend to leave permanent maiming injuries. remember though that permanent maiming injuries do not always stop people, just look at some police arrest reports for proof of that.

Thats not to say that submissions are the ultimate aspect of fighting, there is no ultimate maxcim to unarmed fighting now, lack of knowledge in any of the fighting ranges or types (groundfighting, kicking, boxing, knees and elbows, wrestling) is a weakness that can and will be exploited by those with the knowledge.

If you can't grapple and only strike, a grappler can negate your strikes with grappling. if you only grapple and don't strike you will end up eating strikes if your opponent has some grappling skill and negates your takedowns. if you only groundfight a wrestler will throw you on your back and pound your face in pankration style.
A good striker can keep you in his preferred striking range only some knowledge of strikeing yourself will you be able to frustrate his attempts to control the fight.

Royce gracie was able to use BJJ to control the fights using the ground fight becasue most people poo pooed its usefullness.
Now people know better and its not so easy to put someone in your guard and let them make a mistake that will give you a submission. its a different mixed martial art fight world now, nothing pure is good enough, no fighters at top level only train in one aspect of fighting.

The best fighters have no holes in thier fight plan, no weaknesses that can be exploited.

Dirt tactics are all well and good but if you use them because you are already at a strength or skill disadvantage it may do you more harm than good. There is not much point to working up your attacker into a blood frenzy by eating his ear and tearing at his throat, becasue what if that doesn;t help, you will wake up on a curb with your teeth kicked out or your arms broken.

Street combat does n ot always go to the dirtiest fighter, but to the most experienced or most athletic fighter.

If you are 150 pounds and you fighting a 250 pound wrestler or boxer skill and nothing else is your salvation, and you will need a pound of skill for every pound he outweighs you. Fighting dirty will only help if you happen to take out his eyes completely. or rip out his jugular, but then what? how do you explain to the police that you killd this guy becasue you didn't want to get your ass beat by a bigger guy.
There are so many variables to combat you can't say that dirty tactics will win fights they only add another dimension to combat, much like picking up a knife or a stick.
But then when you do that you take things up a notch be sure you are ready top lose the fight on that new level if you are already losing it in another way.

[david welch]

"you will have seriously upped the stakes in a combat situation with someone in a position to literally snuff your existence out"

That is why I titled this thread Combat techniques. Most modern Martial Arts approach from the idea of scoreing points or winning a fight. Combat training is learning how to _KILL_ the other guy. There is a big difference. If I am locked in combat with you, the last thing I am going to be worried about is making you mad because then you might hurt me.

"Street combat does not always go to the dirtiest fighter, but to the most experienced or most athletic fighter"

I think the winner is probably the one that attacks first, and keeps the initiative though the whole fight and beats the other guy to death. The dirty techniques like eye gouging and fish hooking are tools to either move him into a position or to make space between you so you can either keep your initiative or try to take it away from him.

One of my uncles is a prison guard and another one a cop. According to them, between more or less equal prisoners, a prison fight lasts 3-5 seconds, with one person completely overwhelming the other.

"Fighting dirty will only help if you happen to take out his eyes completely. or rip out his jugular, but then what? how do you explain to the police that you killd this guy becasue you didn't want to get your ass beat by a bigger guy"

This is just _MY_ personal opinion and _I_ am aware and willing to accept the consequences of my actions.

I don't go and get into bar fights for "fun". I would do everything I could not to get into a fight. I don't _WANT_ to be in a fight. So if you have forced me to be in a fight I am assuming that you have forced me into mortal combat and are trying to kill me. There are some exceptions, sure, like a drunk uncle at a party or something. But charge me in Wally-Worlds parking lot at midnight and all bets are off.

"There are so many variables to combat you can't say that dirty tactics will win fights they only add another dimension to combat, much like picking up a knife or a stick."

I agree with that completely. Of coarse, I also think H2H is to keep me alive until I can _GET_ my hands on a knife, or even a stick. I want to turn it into armed-vs-unarmed if given any chance at it at all. <img src="http://www.thearma.org/forum/images/icons/grin.gif" alt="" />

[Jay Vail]

I think the main reason they take out throat claws and eye attacks is not becasue they would be killing each other with them in the UFC but that it looks particularly nasty and brutal when 2 guys are tearing at each others faces like wild animals and these attacks tend to leave permanent maiming injuries. remember though that permanent maiming injuries do not always stop people, just look at some police arrest reports for proof of that.

Mike, you misunderstand the point of these techniques. They are not to "stop" people, but to cause them to loosen their grip or hold so that you can escape, assume the top mount, and bust the tar out of them. If used in that way, and not relied on to end the fight, they almost always assist in defeating a wrestler. Wrestling alone is for sissies.

[Jay Vail]

But see: E.B. Sledge’s With the Old Breed:

“‘Before Company K moved out, I went down the road to the next company to see what had happened during the night. I learned that those blood-chilling screams had come from the Japanese. He had jumped into a foxhole where he met an alert Marine. In the ensuing struggle, he [the Marine] had lost his knife. The desperate Marine had jammed his forefinger into his enemy’s eye socket and killed him.’”