Egyptian Wrestling Images

[JohnDemick]

"Clearly the Egyptians had sophisticated wrestling techniques, linking them in lineage is very difficult however. Pankration is at least 2000 - 3000 years old and its influence is surely made its mark on many of the folk wrestlings around Europe, but the real question is how much of an influence?"

Now is it possible that Pankration could have drawn influences from the European cultures surrounding Greece? Wrestling in Europe can be traced to the cave drawings found in France (15000 years old I believe), I believe that every European culture had sophisticated wrestling techniques, there were probably universal similarities before Pankration.

[James Hudec]

Now is it possible that Pankration could have drawn influences from the European cultures surrounding Greece? Wrestling in Europe can be traced to the cave drawings found in France (15000 years old I believe), I believe that every European culture had sophisticated wrestling techniques, there were probably universal similarities before Pankration.

Does anyone have any links to sites with more information on Egyptian wrestling and these cave paintings you mention?

[Mike Cartier]

all i know is that there are Egyptian and mesapotamian tomb illustrations showing wrestling and stick fighting.
The Egyptian ones are from the Ben Hassan Tombs

[James Hudec]

Thanks Mike.

Wrestling in Europe can be traced to the cave drawings found in France (15000 years old I believe), I believe that every European culture had sophisticated wrestling techniques

Is there any way to verify this? It's a fascinating idea, but I think most people would be rather sceptical if told that some cave paintings detailed an early unarmed combat system. <img src="/forum/images/icons/confused.gif" alt="" />

[JohnDemick]

Hmm...I never meant to imply that they were sophisticated. I just said if they had wrestling 15,000 years ago they would have had plenty of time to develop it into a system before Pankration, recorded or not. Ive just heard from multiple sources that the origins of wrestling can be found in the cave drawings in France where there were drawings that showed people wrestling. A simple google search on the origins of wrestling will show it.

I am just relaying information I've seen on multiple sources, I havent seen the drawings myself.

[Jared L. Cass]

Very cool. It would be awesome to discover a stone age european systematic source; ie: do this, then this, then this, respond thus, ect. But, such "written" forms of communication are a pretty recient bit of human communicative development. The verbal tradition was (and in many ways still is) the primary way of passing on knowledge. The images discussed so far in this thread could easier be said to be "snap shots" of certain aspects of life back then. While they show an activity/practice - there's no direct "instruction" as we are lucky enoufgh to have with the various fechtbuchs.

IMO the fact that these cave paintings and egyption images (probably lots more we've never seen befor by other cultures too ) are even represented is no big supprise.

On an instinctive level, all creatures fight/attack/defend themselves. Everything from the grass hopper that bites your finger to try and get you to let him go... to the lion that pulls down his prey (not to mention the prey that kicks, gores, and tries other things to defend it self from said lion). Human's are no different.

Combine the above with the given fact that early man as we know him had the same developed brain as we have now, of course there would be a "sysyem" of wreastling. It's man's nature to constantly improve and build on past things to gain an advantage and thus make life easier.

My two cents.

Jared L. Cass, ARMA Associate, Wisconsin

[James Hudec]

Stands to reason I guess. I'd love to see these cave paintings.

[Daniel Pope]

For a fairly good academic discussion of wrestling and other combative systems, I'd give Poliakoff's "Combat Sports in the Ancient World" a look. It's well worth reading, and covers both cultural and technical aspects of combative systems (both armed and unarmed, though chiefly the latter) in ancient times.

[Mike Cartier]

yes poliakoff's Combat sports of the ancient world is the academic standard for this subject.