Defending Myself

European historical unarmed fighting techniques & methods

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Gene Tausk
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Re: Defending Myself

Postby Gene Tausk » Tue Apr 26, 2005 2:22 pm

David:

You wrote:

"...their fighting arts were their religion"

In the words of Mr. Miyagi...you, too much TV.

Where did you get this from? Certainly comparing kung fu to Christianity is a bit much, IMHO.


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david welch
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Re: Defending Myself

Postby david welch » Tue Apr 26, 2005 3:27 pm

I won't even start quoting the people like Dr. Kano, Masutatsu Oyama, Morihei Ueshiba, et all, that said the true purpose of the EMA was spiritual developement.

But really, what I said was true. In the west, warcraft and religion were two seperate entities. Religion might direct who you thought needed kill'in, but you didn't go to church to learn how to do it. In the East, the two were and are unseperabley intertwined

Author: Kent Fung
Published on: February 14, 2005


I saw a banner the other day proclaiming the existence of a Christian martial arts association and was reminded of the relationship between martial arts and religion. It seems appropriate, with the approach of a major Christian holiday, to examine the ties between these two fields.
Although it isn’t mentioned as much these days, there was a time when Christian clergy denounced the study of martial arts as a pagan or heathenish practice. I’ve met people who didn’t want to study the arts because they thought it would force them to join an Asian religion and make them give up whatever deity they grew up with.

Is there any truth to these beliefs?

In a competition-oriented school, probably not. Arts that are popular with the NHB crowd, for instance, tend to very down to earth. You learn techniques, you learn tactics and you learn strategy. Then you practice applying them. For instance, there’s nothing even remotely resembling religion in Brazilian jujitsu or Thai kickboxing.

There might be a bit of a gray area in some other arts, such as Taiji, Aikido, or some styles of kung fu. But since we’re dealing primarily here with arts that originated in East Asia, it’s important to first note what religion means to Asians.

In the West, religion typically means a deity (or, if we’re talking about ancient civilizations, deities) that must be obeyed. In return, some external reward is offered admission into a paradise-like afterlife or worldly advantages such as success or protection. It is a bargain: obey and worship, and collect your reward. In addition, though modern society has tempered this belief, most religions actively teach that all other religions are somehow bad or invalid and should be rejected.

But in Asia, religion and philosophy are hard to separate. A true Buddhist, for example, does not pray to Buddha or believe that pleasing Buddha will reap him any benefits. Instead, he strives to live according to a set of virtues and principals not because Buddha cares one way or another, but because he believes it is a path to a harmonious life. Buddhism teaches practitioners to not be greedy; to be kind in both thought and deed and to avoid extremes.

While fervent Taoists might believe in any number of demigods and spirits, at core, what they really believe is that the universe follows certain principals, and once you understand how to work within the system and not fight against it, things will fall into place and you’ll be happier and healthier. Taoists try to emulate nature always keeping things in balance, never striving too hard for any one goal and reducing the importance of one’s ego in one’s actions and thoughts.

The average Asian’s religious beliefs are a hodgepodge combination handed down from generation to generation, observing a few Buddhist holidays, living by his or her choice of Taoist principles and mixing in elements of ancestor worship and Confucianism. And nobody cares or gets offended.

In general, religious practices are often indistinguishable from a lifestyle, philosophical or ethical choice in East Asia.

Most Asian martial arts have origins that are tied to Buddhism and/or Taoism. The Shaolin Temple was known as the home to sophisticated and potent fighting form, but it was first and foremost a Buddhist temple. Many people believe Taijiquan was invented by a Taoist sage named Zhang Sanfeng.

To my knowledge, no Buddhist or Taoist belief truly contradicts anything that is said in the Bible or Koran (though I admit that I’ve done very little study on the latter.) It is true that for many martial arts, you’ll have to understand the concept of yin, yang and balance in order to apply the techniques in a practical situation. But it’s easy to see this as a scientific principle or practical strategy.

And it’s true that at many traditional schools, there is Buddhism/Confucianism-inspired discussion of ethics and proper behavior things such as honesty, courage and the importance of helping the helpless and disadvantaged are often stressed. What’s not Christian or anti-Muslim about that? I’m not aware of any rabbi that would object to these things.

Yet, if you asked an Asian with an incomplete grasp of Western culture or language whether or not religion and the martial arts were related, he might very well answer "yes." In the end, though, there is nothing taught in a dojo that will clash with any religious beliefs you might have.



Caroline Baker
BellaOnline's Martial Arts Editor




What is Aikido?

Aikido derives from Japanese forms of Martial Arts. It has roots in several other Japanese styles, such as Jujitsu and Judo. Aikido specifically refers to the style of Martial Arts that can be traced back to Morihei Ueshiba, known to Aikido students as O Sensei.

An accomplished martial artist, fencer and athlete, Ueshiba came to create Aikido during a time when the world was in great turmoil, the 1940's and World War II. As his story goes, while he excelled in the physical aspects of all he did, he felt something missing. It wasn't until he turned to religion, including Shintoism, that he began to see martial arts as not only a physical training but a way to be one with the universe.



http://www.shotokai.com/ingles/filosofia/introzen.html
INTRODUCTION
By George Leonard
From the Book: The Zen Way to the Martial Arts.


These words of instruction to a medieval samurai might be said to contain the essence of what Zen master Taisen Deshimaru would tell his Western reader. To practice Zen or the martial arts, you must live intensely, wholeheartedly, without reserves, as if you might die in the next instant. Lacking this sort of commitment, Zen becomes mere ritual and the martial arts devolve into mere sport.
To show the unbreakable connection between Zen and the martial arts, Deshimaru goes back to samurai times. Most samurai followed Japan's national religion of Shinto, an extremely sophisticated form of animism, in which all of nature is imbued with spirit (shin). But they were also deeply attracted to Buddhism as expressed in Zen practice. The Zen emphasis on simplicity and selfcontrol, full awareness at every moment, and tranquility in the face of death set well with the samurai way of life, in which a duel was always possible and the difference between life and death lay in one swift stroke of the sword. Better yet for the samurai was the fact that Zen offered a specific daily practice: through zazen, an unadorned form of sitting meditation, the samurai could effectively still the restless mind, perceive the ultimate harmony beneath seeming discord, and achieve the oneness of intuition and action so necessary for kenjutsu (swordfighting). Indeed, as Deshimaru points out, Zen became known as "the religion of the samurai."

Modern martial arts such as kendo, karate, judo, and aikido go back directly to the marriage of Zen and Bushido, the medieval chivalry code of the samurai. At best, they are Budo. To translate these two Japanese words is difficult. Literally, Bushido means "the way of the warrior" (bushi, "warrior"; do, "path" or "way"). Budo means "the way of war" (bu, "war"). But the Japanese character bu, as Deshimaru points out, also means to cease the struggle, to sheathe the sword. So the emphasis in Budo is not on bu but on do. Even do has a flavor, a deeper meaning, that is hard for the Westerner to grasp; for do, the way, is essentially goalless, and we of the West have long been seduced by goals, by getting ahead, by winning.

The difficulty in translating do is reflected in a question that sometimes comes up during my own workshop sessions with non-martial artists. When I speak of my practice of aikido, I am asked, "What are you practicing for?" I answer that, at the heart of it, I'm practicing because I'm practicing. Yes, I gain certain things: physical conditioning and grace, confidence, comradeship, a sense of harmony. But even these fade beside the simple and compelling power of do, the way. Aikido is my path, my way.

Master Deshimaru emphasizes that the true martial arts take their spirit from Budo rather than from sports:


I have nothing against sports, they train the body and develop
stamina and endurance. But the spirit of competition and power
that presides over them is not good, it reflects a distorted vision
of life. The root of the martial arts is not there....
In the spirit of Zen and Budo everyday life becomes the contest.
There must be awareness at every moment: getting up in the morning,
working, eating, going to bed.
That is the place for the mastery of self.

Many people these days come to the martial arts as if to a sport or, worse, as if seeking an effective instrument of aggression and domination. And, unhappily, there are studios that cater to this clientele. Violent and exploitative martial arts movies contribute to the corruption of Budo, and we are offered, as well, the fiction of some cinematic James Bond going offwith a "master" for two weeks during which time he will become totally proficient in some particularly lethal form of the martial arts.
Knowing all this, I shouldn't be surprised when a newcomer to our school asks, "How long will it take me to master aikido?" Still, the question leaves me speechless. I have practiced aikido for more than twelve years, during six of which I have also taught, and I feel considerably further from "mastering" the art than I did after my first six months. Perhaps I should simply respond as Master Deshimaru did when he was asked a similar question:


"How many years do I have to practice zazen?"
"Until you die."


However, this is so off topic,I will either concede the point in this post, to drop it, or invite you to take the discussion to e-mail.
"A sword never kills anybody; it is a tool in the killer's hand." Lucius Annaeus Seneca 4BC-65AD.

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Gene Tausk
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Re: Defending Myself

Postby Gene Tausk » Tue Apr 26, 2005 4:41 pm

Your challenge to take this to email is accepted and after this post this matter will not be discussed on this thread (RHIP).

Respectfully, I think there is some confusion here.

First, as I believe you already pointed out, major Eastern doctrines began as philosophies, not methods or worship or doctrine, marking them as different in origin from the three major Monotheistic religions. Therefore, calling Daoism, Confucianism, Buddhism and Shintoism "religions" as compared to Judaism, Christianity and Islam is already reft with problems.

Second, whereas the three faiths I just mentioned are exclusive, the philosophies I just mentioned are inclusive. You can't really be a Catholic and a Muslim at the same time, but thereis nothing wrong with Japanese performing a Shinto ritual one day and participating in a Buddhist wedding ceremony the next. Therefore, once again, your use of the term "religion" is somewhat misguided.

Now, the sources you quote saying that most Asian MA have ties to Buddhism and/or Daoism are, and once again respectfully, not backed up by contemporary historical sources. Buddhism was not founded until appx. 500 BCE and Daoism codified later than this. Are you saying that Asian societies did not practice fighitng arts before this time? Strange, since Chinese kingdoms warred with each other long before this.

I think you are, and again respectfully, inserting too much meaning in the "-do" suffix at the end of a word, like jujutsu - judo, karate-karatedo. Many of these suffixes were placed on the end of the words at the close of the 19th century to show that these arts would have a use as self-development courses and not just methods of fighting. By self-development, I mean this in the same way as a non-doctrinal self-development, not a religion.

In any case, you know my email address so I will be happy to continue this with you thorugh email exchanges.


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Rey Garcia
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Re: Defending Myself

Postby Rey Garcia » Sat May 07, 2005 9:23 pm

Mike carter is on the money. But I'll also add this as he said boxing (I'ts only five punch"s to learn you also learn coordination and footwork . And judo (throws hold's submissions and ground work ). or BJJ( take downs and a lot of ground work) also judo and BJJ will teach you escapes and avoiding takedowns .Also freestyle wrestling (tough bunch of guys) Of all of them the trowing tecniques of judo are the most technicly difficult and consequenly take the most time. That having been said anything is better than nothing take the time to look at all of them (no one art has a monoply on learning.) And try to find somthing close enough to where you live as to be practical (ie you being able to attend class at the very least 2x per week ) Also ask if you can watch the classes and meet with the instructor (there are a lot of people out there that claim to know all the secret arts of the universe ) .And dont be pressured into signing up on the spot(the old hi pressure sales pitch)and beware of the phrase ("were having a special this week") The second you hear that a bell should go off in your head , Smile politly take the information he has (ie pamflets and cards) and start moving slowly towards the door . If you have any questions feel free to E-mail me and I'll do whatever I can for you .
Be just and fear not!
Razor (Rey Garcia)
Rey Garcia
ARMA Staten Island
http://www.arma-si.org

Be Just And Fear Not !

Rey Garcia
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Re: Defending Myself

Postby Rey Garcia » Sat May 07, 2005 9:54 pm

Hi Andrew
I just have to say this in defence of "sport judo" .
As a couple of the other guy's have pointed out Judo is very street effective . It also does have weekness( ie striking ) which is why I always recomend suplementing it with boxing or kickboxing . But I have been using judo in the street for a long time 21 years NYPD the last 11 in the fugative enforcment division . NYPD warrant squad, violent felon unit . It has saved not only my life on numerous occasions including disarming perps who were armed with knives pistols and on on occasion a sniper with a rifle . I still continue to teach at the NYC Police Academy Tactical Training Unit and Teach a CQB course for the Emergency Service Unit (SWAT) .And have also taught courses in officer survival for the FBI. All I ask is take a judo class and see what it is all about before you dismiss it . Incidenly In japan it is required for all police officers not only to have at least a 1st degree black belt in judo. But to attend a minimum number of classes per month to remain on active duty.
Best wishes
Det . Rey Garcia NYPD
World Masters Judo Champion
Rey Garcia

ARMA Staten Island

http://www.arma-si.org



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Jay Vail
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Re: Defending Myself

Postby Jay Vail » Sun May 08, 2005 5:35 am

Andrew, please do not be so quick to dismiss judo as a combat art. Rey Garcia is on the money about judo's effectiveness on the street. Modern judo has its defects -- by stressing sport it has neglected its combative components. When I played judo in the 60s, however, we were taught the nastier aspects of it along with the sportive parts. This included pressure point attacks and atemi (striking). I will personally testify that it works as advertised against someone who wants to take your head off.

As for the advice to just buy a gun, let me say that while a gun is nice to have, it will not save you in many situations and provides a false sense of security that can lead you into situations you more prudently should avoid. Street attacks come in all shapes and sizes. There will be times when the attack occurs as such close distance or comes from behind, that you will not have time to deploy your gun.

david welch
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Re: Defending Myself

Postby david welch » Sun May 08, 2005 10:46 am

Hi, Jay.

You are right about just having a gun not being a cure all.

Criminals rarely make their intentions known in advance, and use a collection of ruses and tricks to get close before starting their assault.

If someone is carrying and they don't have any grappling skills to go with it they might find themselves depending on something they can't use. Luckily, in fight weapons access works pretty much the same for a knife, a gun, a rondel, etc. You just have to practice it.

We got an airsoft pistol from walmart for $17, and are using it to practice in fight access, drawstroke, and firing from retention. All it takes is a pair of safty glasses, and a willing training partner. <img src="/forum/images/icons/laugh.gif" alt="" />
"A sword never kills anybody; it is a tool in the killer's hand." Lucius Annaeus Seneca 4BC-65AD.

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Re: Defending Myself

Postby Jeremy Martin » Wed May 18, 2005 9:01 am

I have not practiced Western Martial arts, though I'd like to. Just don't know of anywhere around here I can do it(and no money doesn't help).

That being said a lot of the things I've read here about unarmed western martial arts reminds me a lot of the style I take(though very rarely can I attend), Tracy's style of Kenpo. If you're looking for a good self-defense art I'd recommend that.

For physical training don't overlook push-ups, sit-ups, and pull-ups. If you weight train I'd go with light weights. Getting all bulky just generally makes you look impressive, as well as the fact that weight training increases the chances of hurting yourself by a lot. Body-weight excercises are much safer and you will get -stronger-, not just super puffy.

Training with a bag is highly recommended. The resistance is invaluable. But heres the real secret, no matter what style you use: Repitition. If you want to develop your punch then punch, over and over and over. Start slow and work on technique on anything you do. Speed and power will come with proper technique.

Muscle memory is also extremely important if you have to actually use what you've practiced. When the stress and adrenaline start kicking in you'll be suprised how fast any plan you may have will go out the window, even if it is 'fool-proof'(nobody usually tells the fools). You'll be acting on auto-piolt. Make sure your auto-pilot knows the way to the nearest landing strip.

And most importantly is your mindset. If you're going to go you have to be willing to go all the way. Most 'martial artists' get their asses kicked because the hesitate and don't follow through properly on their techniques. If you're going to kick then totally commit to that kick. Even if it means possibly messing-up and getting your ass kicked. If you hesitate and doubt yourself you -are- going to fail and get your ass kicked. Better to go down trying. <img src="/forum/images/icons/smile.gif" alt="" />

I hope this hasn't deviated too far from the ARMA-way, or whatever, but I felt most of it surely applies to whatever style/method you're using. Hell, it applies to life in general in many cases. <img src="/forum/images/icons/smile.gif" alt="" />

P.S., If all else fails, eye-gouge and throat-jab. That always works <img src="/forum/images/icons/tongue.gif" alt="" />
"I've had brain surgery, whats your excuse?"


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