Der waage?

[Jaron Bernstein]

Hi all,

I am now reading Codex Wallerstein and am noticing that it refers frequently to der waage ("the scales"). My current understanding of this is the ability to rapidly transfer weight from one leg to the other as needed but I am not clear on this.

I was wondering if ye who are more familiar with the scales could explain it. <img src="/forum/images/icons/tongue.gif" alt="" />

[Casper Bradak]

I think most are currently interpreting it as a good, solid, "balanced" stance, with 50/50 weight distribution, a good centerline, the feet wide enough to maintain good balance, more than shoulder width and non-linear. Check out "Hans Wurms" ringbuch on this site for another good rendering.
I think it is a specific stance, not just a principle, but the even weight distribution, like "scales" does allow rapid weight transfer from foot to foot.

[Brian Hunt]

Paulus Hector Mair also mentions this particular stance (der wag) in several of his plates, but I haven't yet found a specific description of it in his manual. That doesn't mean that there isn't one, it just means I haven't yet found it with my slow german reading skills.

Brian Hunt
GFS.

[JeffGentry]

Hey Jaron

I think it is a specific stance, not just a principle

It is a specific stance to keep from being pushed back, John demonstrated it at our 1.0, we haven't practiced it or used it much, is also a principal that goes with it so the two aren't seperate it is a matter of applying the right principal to the right technique at the right time.

Jeff

[Matt_Bruskotter]

I'd agree with Casper. I always interpreted it as a solid stance taught in most martial arts. It should be "balanced" like a scale so there's not too much pressure on either foot thus putting the scales out of balance. It made me think that I should act like I'm standing on scales. How else would you maintain a stance unless you used equal weight distribution? I think that's why many stances in all martial arts, when it comes to the feet, look very similar.

[JeffGentry]

Hey Matt

You got it, most of the thing's we do use technique's and princple's together just like any other martial art, the foot placement is slightly diffrent in the scale stance, a little wider than a normal fighting stance, with the heel's facing each other.

Jeff

[Casper Bradak]

It is a specific stance to keep from being pushed back, John demonstrated it at our 1.0, we haven't practiced it or used it much, is also a principal that goes with it so the two aren't seperate it is a matter of applying the right principal to the right technique at the right time

I don't agree with that. I believe the variation you are referring to is simply a modification of the foot position in the waage or the horizontal stance (or any stance) during a grapple or bind for that specific purpose.
I don't think I've heard John refer to that foot position as defining the waage, specifically, but I could be wrong.

[Jeffrey Hull]

I take Waage to be both a principle of balance and a specific way of standing balanced in various stances.

JH

[JeffGentry]

Hey Casper

I believe the variation you are referring to is simply a modification of the foot position in the waage or the horizontal stance (or any stance) during a grapple or bind for that specific purpose.

That is exactly what it is.

I don't think I've heard John refer to that foot position as defining the waage, specifically,

He demostrated the shift in foot position while a 6'3 student tried to push him back, He didn't refered to it as such it was used to demostrate the principal in action.

Having been a rock climber off and on for year's, i know foot position can at time's make or break you just by a slight turn of the toe's or heel for leverage or balance and knowing when and how is important.

So I think it can at time's be a stance when required.

Jeff

[Jaron Bernstein]

The CW talks about doing this or that technique while standing "in the scales". This is my first read of CW so I am just absorbing this. For those out there who know the CW well, is this a specific stance (the heels facing each other that John C. showed) or more the concept of being able to use foot placement and weight shift in any stance to do stuff?

[Jake_Norwood]

The "Waage" shows up in several places in the German manuals. The more I see it references, the more I believe that the "scales" is the foundational "deep" stance. Both knees bent, weight evenly distributed, so that you can rock back and forth, like a pair of scales.

I think that it's a general stance based on a principle, thus one is implied in the other.

What JC showed was, I believe, an exposition of how the position of the "waage" works. Not that the turn of the foot is the issue, but rather a way to show what kind of balance and stablity can be achieved, and what achieving it does.

I find that when interpreting techniques, that if I just drop my weight evenly and by bending my knees when the manuals say to go into the "waage" that the technique works. Foot position, etc., is important, but incidental to specific desired results.

Jake

[JeffGentry]

Thak's Jake

I find that when interpreting techniques, that if I just drop my weight evenly and by bending my knees when the manuals say to go into the "waage" that the technique works. Foot position, etc., is important, but incidental to specific desired results.

That is what i was trying to say and could not articulate.


Jeff